#Eulora log for Wednesday, 2015-07-01

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mod6servers down?03:29
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diana_comanmorning chetty09:13
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jurovserver down (was not me)12:02
chettyyeah, just a sec12:02
chettywe are hiccupping the database a bit, srry12:04
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jurovno mollusc, dead nor alive12:14
diana_comanI saw some Worn Old Screens dropped/picked up by MP...12:15
chettyhmm I havent found those either, I have found various stuffs wandering at random, even got a cute purple snail :)12:16
diana_comanpurple snails are cute indeed :)12:17
jurov"flying isnt nice" is public announcement?12:25
jurovi was getting some shrooms and it flashed12:27
jurovi was just standing by merchant12:27
chettyyeah server admin, but not so timely12:27
chettyrestart in 312:28
jurovhaha looks like i got my wings clipped12:30
chettythere are likely to be a lot of quick restarts this morning folks, I may not give warning everytime12:37
jurovas per my continuing economics rambling - where will little bits o' nothing come from when merchant dies?12:44
chettygood question12:46
chettyhmm mp says its in todays update ...12:47
jurovhmm, pu ingredients for bandar toolkit into the public table, "Combine" caused the adze and hoe to vanish ?!13:35
jurovand trying again it says they aren't there13:35
jurovchetty, there?13:37
chettyand it didnt make any bundle?13:44
chettyany chance those items had a negative quality?13:45
jurovit just took them and did not make anything13:45
jurovi checked, even if they had negative before, they should be averaged out13:46
chettyhmm well I'll poke around, this sure is first time anythng even similar happens, pretty strange ..13:47
chettyso a toolkit takes a few more things than that, what happened to the other items?13:48
jurovthey were left there13:49
chettywell for now I am betting on negative items13:50
jurovso they stay negative even if mixed with positive result?13:50
chettywell in fact you shouldnt have negative items, but I am still working on various places that can happen and deleting them when they show up.13:52
jurovperhaps, if you used a database that allows setting such constraints....13:52
chettyones I see show up in the db all seem to yours ...13:53
jurovyes, i did some adze with q -14 today by keyboard-fu exploring13:54
jurovi stacked it woth another one and thought i will be okay13:54
jurovdunno what you gonna do if diana_coman succeeds doing her mining bot. this is reliably reproducible.13:55
chettywell I live to server people that want to break it seems13:55
chettywould you care to explain exactly what you mean by keyboard-fu?13:57
jurovlol we clearly have different approach, db constraints like this are among first things I am thinking about13:58
jurovmove, Enter, arrow up, enter, Enter, move....13:58
jurov(arrow up recalls /explore)13:59
chettyok, but this is not about the db14:00
jurovserver does not track quality of the items?14:01
jurovof course that check should not be left to the db, but having it there is very useful safety net14:03
chettyI find having the negatives there rather helpful in tracking down and eliminating them14:22
jurovwouldn't be better not having them in first palce?14:23
jurovit sounds to me like "we must track down and eliminate bugs faster than the hax0rs do" shitty vendors do14:24
chettywanna take over?14:24
jurovsorry, i do hunt bugs after the fact, too. just prefer to nip them in the bud if possible (when someone tries to insert obviously invalid value)14:30
jurovdid not intend to dememan your work :(14:30
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lobbesbotNew post: http://trilema.com/category/smg/feed/ Eulora mini update, July 1st <http://trilema.com/2015/eulora-mini-update-july-1st/>14:59
mircea_popescu^ worth a read.15:05
diana_comanand then a play, since it seems quite criptic to me15:07
mircea_popescudoes it ?15:07
mircea_popescuseems perfectly clear to me!15:07
diana_comanwell, lots of things that I have no idea about essentially15:07
diana_comanI'm sure it does, lol15:07
diana_comanoverloading a craft? shredding recipe?15:08
mircea_popescumanaged to make your book yet ?15:08
diana_comanjust to name the two things popping out15:08
mircea_popescuoh, have you noticed what happens when you put high quality items in the craft ?15:08
diana_comanI wasn't in game, lol, just came back15:08
diana_comanuhm, something I noticed,but I wouldn't say I truly understood it, lol15:09
mircea_popescuwell, that's overloading the craft.15:09
diana_comangood to kno15:10
mircea_popescugenerally anything that results in a bundle with q > 100 is overloading hte craft.15:10
mircea_popescusome processes allow you to do it with the items ("add 1 to 10 of X"). if you add 10 you're overloading it.15:10
diana_comanREALLY glad to know, since I was actually doing it but I had no idea what it was I was doing :)))15:10
mircea_popescuand overloaded crafts loot, which is why you get a ton of recipes when you make rope out of q 150 grass, but not so many if using q 99 grass15:11
diana_comanyeah, that I noticed but all I could grasp was essentially that well, you put more into it than what you get as an item,hence it adds the loot15:11
mircea_popescupretty much15:11
mircea_popescui guess all these mechanics should be on wiki huh15:12
diana_comantrouble is that basically I am not really sure of many things and therefore I'm not going to add to the wiki "I'm grasping at straws here, but it seems to me that ..."15:12
diana_comanmaybe I should, who knows15:12
mircea_popescuwhat are you sure of, quantum mechanics ?15:15
diana_comanlol, "sure" as in above a personal threshold for that15:15
diana_coman"tested the hypothesis to my satisfaction"15:16
mircea_popescuo you have :D15:16
mircea_popescuknowledge proceeds from the efforts of the unsure, and is lost through the bloviations of the certain.15:16
mircea_popescuanyway, the mechanics is as follows : you need some ingredients, which make a bundle, which yields a fixed product.15:20
mircea_popescuall this is specified in nominal terms, which is to say taking q 100 items.15:21
mircea_popescuif you use higher q ingredients, your bundle will end up q > 100.15:21
mircea_popescuif you use more ingredients than the minimum, bundle idem.15:21
mircea_popescuif you have a bundle nominally worth 10000 making a product nominally worht 10000, but the bundle is q 115 and the product is q 105, then that 1000 goes somewhere.15:22
mircea_popescuand it returns in the shape of something. maybe.15:22
diana_comanperfect, thank you15:22
mircea_popescumeanwhile if the reverse is true, and your bundle is merely q 95, the 1k you're straight out extracting out of the game.15:22
mircea_popescuso in a certain sense, it is advantageous to be a noob : take 3 grass q 30 so worth 20 each, make one thread q 105 so worth 200. you turned 60 into 20015:23
diana_comanyes, I tested that too, certainly :p15:23
mircea_popescuso it's just not so simply cut, "noob bad, vet good" or anything. cheaper is not necessarily better. more expensive is not necessarily better.15:24
mircea_popescuand so on15:24
mircea_popescuobviously if one was going to do away with the boring liniarity which leads necessarily to the rpg grind, one also has to do with the inequalities that underpin it.15:25
jurovyes, i thought something like that but it was hard to pat down, and i was like, "oh that is going to change several times anyway"15:25
mircea_popescuso instead of inequalities there's now ambiguities.15:25
mircea_popescujurov amusingly, that's not changing.15:25
diana_comanI think jurov summed up very well the main trouble - the changing, as I see no reason for this to change15:25
diana_comaninequality of knowledge, the most painful inequality ever, lol15:26
diana_comanI'll add it to the wiki then15:27
mircea_popescuanyway. there's still going to be a lot of clicking, but the "i'm level 50, should be hitting lvl 50 rats" thing doesn't exist.15:27
jurovdiana add there that if you get negative quality items, don't even think to craft with them15:28
mircea_popescualso the "A noob could never kill a dragon" thing won't exist. and so on.15:28
mircea_popescujurov how do you keep getting those anyway ?15:28
diana_comanok jurov, will add that15:28
jurovwe had amusing convo about this with chetty just before you joined15:28
jurovi was bewildered why she accepts them into the db in first place15:29
jurovand reply was15:29
jurov<chetty> I find having the negatives there rather helpful in tracking down and eliminating them15:29
jurovi'm afraid i caused quite a foul mood to her15:30
jurovand as for exactly how, by very quick keyboard mining i was able to overdraw the tools15:30
jurov(quite reliably)15:30
mircea_popescuvery quick keyboard mining ?15:31
jurovmove, Enter, arrow up, enter, Enter, move....15:31
chettyserver restart in 515:31
mod6the shortcut for that helps a lot, instead of: mouse to command window, *click*, move hands to keyboard, enter /explore, move mouse outside of command window, *click*, move hands back to keyboard for arrow keys to move.15:37
mircea_popescuway i've been doing it was just move and hit enter twice15:38
mircea_popescubut i guess i always was kind-of lazy about it myself.15:38
mod6ooo, [Enter] 2x does the trick 'eh. lol i never realized this.15:38
mircea_popescuso i'd set it on autorun and just hit double enter sometimes15:41
mod6i gotta try this lol.15:46
jurovoh that. then it says "exploring failed cuz you moved" occassionally15:47
mircea_popescuyea it does.15:51
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jurovchetty can you please look if i have any neg quality stuff on me?18:39
jurovi have checked every item but that i did last time, too18:39
* mircea_popescu looks18:40
mircea_popescuaand putting finishing touches on one monster of a s.mg report.19:27
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mircea_popesculobbes what was your logger at again ?20:43
lobbesmircea_popescu, you can find it here:
lobbessoon to have an actual domain name20:44
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* jurov got Improved Cruddy Hoe Plans21:10
diana_comanwow, well done jurov21:11
diana_comanI've found a book of lists21:12
diana_comanwhich however seems to be VERY mysterious, as I can't see any effect of it, lol21:12
diana_comanha, it hadn't updated, lol21:12
diana_comanso I got the bouquinism bug21:13
mircea_popescuboth of ya.21:16
mircea_popescuo hey so you can make your book now diana ?21:16
diana_comanwell, if I find the recipes and ingredients for everything I need, yes21:17
mircea_popescuoverload the shit out of it so you don't end up with a dead line.21:17
diana_comanwill try21:17
mircea_popescuas you're atm the only one with a recipe which means the only one able to start that entire craftline21:18
mircea_popescu(and yes, this will be a recurring thing)21:18
diana_comanI see21:18
diana_comanwow, I should try to get going on it then21:18
diana_comanthough I think it will take some time21:18
mircea_popescuhey, it's your game.21:19
mircea_popescuenjoy it.21:19
diana_comanI still found some murky somethings - I thought they were gone?21:30
jurovnoone picked them up21:33
mircea_popescuthey stopped spawning21:33
lobbesbotNew post: http://trilema.com/category/smg/feed/ MiniGame (S.MG), June 2015 Statement <http://trilema.com/2015/minigame-smg-june-2015-statement/>21:33
diana_comanah, ok, I picked them up and will store them; if they are still useful, maybe some noobs will ask for them21:33
mircea_popescucertainly still useful.21:35
jurovhaha sale of food and drink21:37
diana_comanI am curious if a player gets sufficiently lucky to actually significantly drain any of the poolsix and another time  <<--- there's a footnote gone silly there21:38
jurovi meant the last footnote, Eulora will finance itself through the sale of food and drin21:43
mircea_popescuno i know. is this bad ?21:43
jurovno only funny21:43
mircea_popescuespecially seeing the sort of mollusc cheeses we have in store...21:44
chettyserver reset in 521:44
diana_comanit says that the server isn't ready?21:52
diana_comanchetty, is that just my client?21:57
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jurovnot ready from here, too22:26
mircea_popescujurov still ?23:07
jurovno, it works now23:14
jurovhaha janitor got overzealous, claims freshly mined just before shutdown all gone23:15
jurovmusta lock everythign23:16
mircea_popescuwell it's a timer.23:16
jurovand looks like i must wait still for a second after /explore?23:18

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