#Eulora log for Wednesday, 2015-12-09

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jurovand now the overcraft went through the roof... from 75 slags got 8K slag bps and 1K crafttable00:43
jurovbps00:43
danielpbarroni'll buy your blueprints01:00
jurovonly crafttable ones are for sale atm01:02
jurovvarious quality < 10101:02
danielpbarronyes i specifically want low qualit01:04
danielpbarronor rather, i want any quality for a low price01:04
danielpbarronfrom what i can tell, blueprint quality only matters when they are used as the ingredient to something01:05
danielpbarronnot when they are loaded into the 'mind'01:05
jurovwhat about 200 coppers/crafttable bp?01:12
mircea_popescujurov luck eh.01:17
*** Joins: Birdman2 (~birdman@32.212.87.18)01:35
danielpbarronBirdman2, you should read the logs for this channel01:41
danielpbarronand in other news, my tinkering quality is up to 142 !!01:45
danielpbarronmy all time high was 166 i think, back in the wild wild west days01:45
mircea_popescuim kinda unmoved ~20701:46
danielpbarronand while i'm reminiscing, I used to build basic harvestables at nearly 28001:46
mircea_popescui think the most i got there was 360 or so01:46
mircea_popescubut not anymore.01:46
danielpbarronyou once tinkered at 22001:46
danielpbarroni have a single braided thread of yours01:47
mircea_popescui did ?01:47
mircea_popescumust have been hella early01:47
danielpbarronoh wait, 228 even01:47
mircea_popescuanyway, now i'd be surprised if i got 220 grass even01:47
danielpbarronidk if this thread is like a collectors item now01:48
mircea_popescucould be...01:48
mircea_popescui had nondescript tubers freom back in the very early mining days, when people got remarkables all the time. q 550 or so.01:48
mircea_popescubut i made it all gin\01:48
danielpbarronthere weren't any known tuber locations back then..01:49
mircea_popescuat the time "known"| wasn't yuet a thing01:50
danielpbarronyou also made some 500+ crumbly rock at some point. I have a little of that too01:50
mircea_popescuaha.01:50
mircea_popescuim out. mostly made it dg01:50
danielpbarronalso back when the rest of us didn't know where to find it01:50
mircea_popescui actually didn't bother looking either,01:53
mircea_popescujust went randomly.01:53
mircea_popescumeanwhile 118/370501:55
Birdman2diana_conman whenever you're around we can run those claims01:55
mircea_popescuso 0.031891892.01:55
mircea_popescuahahahaha! oh ima remember this one01:55
mircea_popescumz diana conman01:56
hanbotomg conmanspiracy!01:57
Birdman2sweet grass price is up01:58
Birdman2told ya it was worth more01:58
Birdman2though i am open to you explaining why i should have started the auction adjusting for quality01:59
Birdman2if im missing out on something id appreciate it01:59
danielpbarronwell you knew at the very least that I would bid it up to 7002:01
danielpbarronyou thought nobody would stop me from getting it lower?02:01
danielpbarronlucky me, the whole thing got me a little discount02:01
Birdman2im not familiar with the method of selling for sure, but that was a concern of mine02:02
danielpbarronincidently, i'm not sure i can buy at 8002:02
danielpbarroneh yeh i guess i could02:04
Birdman2in the market for wholesale buying imp tools02:09
Birdman2 goodnight eulorians02:09
*** Quits: Birdman2 (~birdman@32.212.87.18) (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)02:09
hanbotdiana_coman (or anyone else who knows rly) what cat. are lh again?03:29
mircea_popescugroceries03:30
mircea_popescu135/4356 = 0.03099173603:31
hanbotah ty. so then diana_coman, not esp interested atm but thanks!03:38
diana_comanhanbot what categories are you interested in then? basics? lumber?09:23
diana_coman<mircea_popescu> mz diana conman <- what's funny is that he consistently wants to actually ping me with this particular misspelled version09:28
diana_comanenglish-speaking (english-only speaking rather, I suspect) seem to find my surname terribly difficult for some reason, so I had tons of: colman/coleman (main change for some reason), conan (raaaa, me barbarian), conman, comman, common...09:30
*** Joins: Birdman2 (~birdman@32.212.87.18)09:44
Birdman2heh im glad you pointed that out my bad09:46
diana_comanBirdman2 want to mine those claims?09:57
Birdman2yes09:58
diana_comankk, on my way to town09:59
diana_comanBirdman2 trade10:01
diana_coman.... lost in action10:05
Birdman2sorry10:06
Birdman2just woke up and nature called10:06
Birdman21222 gross10:17
diana_comanyou mean 1222 shiny rocks?10:22
diana_comanwhat q?10:22
Birdman22310:23
Birdman2trade when ready10:24
diana_comaninput: 70×1.54×180+187×10 = 2127410:25
Birdman2tyty10:25
Birdman2mircea_popescu, is there any limit to the grass and rickety reeds you'll buy? or should i just go nuts10:27
diana_comanstrictly speaking in base value terms, it's barely profitable as output is 1222×78×0.23 = 2192210:31
diana_comantaking away your 10% it's even a loss so Birdman2 that doesn't work10:32
Birdman2the reason to use a noob is to get more of something, where a decrease in quality doesnt matter10:32
Birdman2so figure out something that works on those lines, and then we both profit :)10:33
Birdman2its not for everything for sure10:33
diana_comanwell, that's why I did it on shiny rock10:33
diana_comanas yes, I need lots of low q shiny rock10:33
diana_comanand flotsam for that matter10:33
Birdman2right, so you got alot more than if you were to do it yourself right?10:34
diana_coman+ I can get those claims easily so that the cost is minimal10:34
diana_comanmore items, yes; overall less value though10:34
Birdman2subjective10:34
diana_comanlol, now numbers are subjective10:34
Birdman2no no, just the value of something, you cant run numbers for this with base value if quality is irrelevant10:35
diana_comananyways: how about the fairer approach in which we split output based on input10:35
Birdman2im listening10:35
diana_comanso you put the threads, we calculate how much is that out of the input and therefore you get from the overall output the same percentage10:35
diana_comanwith this approach I'm willing to use sticks too10:36
Birdman2i can get the claims fairly easy as well10:36
diana_comanwell, not on wm and the like, not my quality of sticks10:36
diana_comanbtw, is this what you usually get on your own sticks?10:36
diana_comancare to make a test?10:36
Birdman2ive proved the q on claims is irrelevant in the output10:36
Birdman2for smalls at least10:36
diana_comanreally? where/how?10:36
Birdman2well, mining for people like you10:36
Birdman2with same q threads the output is the same10:37
diana_comanyou mean you get around 1222 shiny rocks on your own claims?10:37
Birdman2if i use 152q threads or whatever yeah10:37
diana_comangot data for that?10:37
Birdman2i havent recorded any, no10:37
Birdman2if you want i have some grass claims we can test it out on10:37
diana_comanI find that rather surprising, because I'm quite sure if I go and build your claims I'll get less than if I build my own (same threads etc)10:38
Birdman2or anything really, ill go get 10 claims or sr10:38
diana_comanmind going and getting 10 sr claims?10:38
Birdman2mhm10:39
diana_comanthing is: if it's really the same then I don't get why do you want to build for someone else really?10:39
diana_comanI mean: you are better off just building your own if there really is no difference, aren't you?10:39
mircea_popescudiana_coman course there is tab autocomplete...10:39
Birdman2like you said the more valueable things that i cant get a good hit % on, or ordinaries10:39
diana_comanwell, with your 10% approach I'll never give those, lol10:39
Birdman2id probably want more on ordinaries10:40
Birdman2its insane how much they produce10:40
Birdman2ill need the same q threads though to run these numbers on the sr10:40
diana_comaneh, mircea_popescu there are also other languages than english in the world, but hey10:40
diana_comanthing is: you want NO risk and ALL the gain10:40
mircea_popescuwait wut10:40
diana_comanI don't know, but I don't see the point to that10:41
Birdman2im providing a service lol thats all. and the point to what? same q threads?10:41
diana_comanmircea_popescu I meant yes, there is autocomplete but apparently some people are not aware of it10:41
Birdman2this irc client doesnt autocomplete with tab, it just cycles through a menu of names and can only be used if i hit enter right there10:42
Birdman2so if i want to say something and ping i'd either have to manual type in the beginning or do it at the end10:42
diana_comanthe point to losing the xp + 10% of whatever output there is (which sometimes might still be at a loss anyway) + all the fuff about10:42
diana_comananyways, got the 10 smalls on sr Birdman2?10:43
Birdman2it depends on your personal needs, there wont be a concrete answer10:43
Birdman2should soon10:43
diana_comanmk10:44
diana_comanyou know what, if it's so insane output etc, then you put in the ingredients and get proportionally from the output, what's wrong with that?10:45
Birdman2ill buy any and all ordinaries10:46
Birdman2so how do we go about this thread business?10:47
diana_coman<mircea_popescu> wait wut <- ha ha, now I realise you probably got the convos mixed up; the no risk and all gain was for Birdman210:47
diana_comanI'll give you the thread for those 10 too and we split again the loot same as before, does that work?10:47
mircea_popescui got that, was wutting the not-all-languages-are-english thing10:47
diana_comanor you buy the thread10:47
diana_comanand all loot is yours10:47
Birdman2eh yeah sure thats fine10:47
Birdman2good hit % anyways10:47
diana_comanmircea_popescu some people seem to be aware of english only, typing (no autocomplete) only etc; possibly my mind jumped around10:48
diana_comanso ping me when in town Birdman210:48
mircea_popescui don't get the complaint tho. so to get your name in i gotta type di and hit tab. ok ?10:49
diana_comanwhat complaint?10:49
mircea_popescuno way i'm touching fucking shift to produce underscores10:49
mircea_popescuhis.10:49
diana_coman??10:49
Birdman2i had no complaint lol10:49
Birdman2i was just glad someone pointed out ive been spelling her name wrong10:49
diana_comanhe says he doesn't have autocomplete....10:50
mircea_popescuaanyways.10:51
Birdman2be in town in a sec10:53
diana_comanwell, now come to -186 -308 then10:54
Birdman2kk10:54
Birdman2im there10:56
diana_comanBirdman2> good hit % anyways <- what is that exactly?10:58
Birdman2not sure id need to find a few hundred claims to find out10:59
Birdman2took a few tries for one though10:59
diana_comanand small:tiny?10:59
Birdman2i think you were right11:00
diana_comanlol11:00
Birdman21057 on my run11:00
diana_coman....11:00
Birdman2i guess the difference was just very minute on the grass that i didnt notice, or i havent done enough to show the true numbers11:00
mircea_popescuin other news, 230 / 6858 aka 0.03353747411:00
mircea_popescucheck out the fucking variance on that diana_coman !11:01
diana_comanyou know mircea_popescu I keep thinking I should go through all that exploring data11:01
mircea_popescuaha.11:02
diana_comanyou started with what, more like 0.3?11:02
Birdman2put em on a claim next to you11:02
mircea_popescubut where have you seen this ever, so it varies from 330 to 288 to 333 within 7-8k assays.11:02
diana_comankk Birdman211:02
mircea_popescuwas ~0.0328 or so. then dropped under 29. now back over11:02
diana_comanoh11:03
mircea_popescuand the difference in "fair" pricing based on data from 10, 100, 1000 or 10000 assays is as marked as 50% on the outside.11:03
mircea_popescu(ftr, this is tinies out of total tries in wm)11:04
diana_comanyeah, that's why I kind of gave up trying to price based on assays really11:04
diana_comanwell, you get at least high q given lj talent or whatever11:05
mircea_popescudja know of any natural process (outside of medical diagnosis in humans, perhaps) that exhibits this sort of behaviour ?11:06
Birdman2so the quality of the claim effects the output huh, do you mind telling me your gathering level?11:06
* mircea_popescu is kinda stoked that eulora is better than life as he knows it.11:06
diana_comanahahaha11:06
mircea_popescuhey, no small feat.11:07
diana_comanBirdman2 for all one knows it's the qual of the enum too/or11:07
Birdman2im really not convinced11:07
diana_comanyou can check that too11:07
Birdman2ive done runs of grass where one batch of 100 would show big differences between another11:07
mircea_popescuthat's kinda the point.11:08
diana_coman433 gathering anyway11:08
Birdman2right, but the same variance showed between me and foxy's claims just now11:08
diana_coman"same" ?11:08
Birdman2% wise11:08
Birdman2~ 10%11:08
diana_comanwhat's your gathering anyway?11:09
Birdman2wow you have 43311:09
Birdman2mine's 75 about to be 7611:09
Birdman2which kind of reaffirms my guess that it doesnt matter11:09
diana_coman.....11:09
chettyI really enjoy watching you guys reverse engineer all my maths11:10
diana_comanso it matter but then it doesn't matter? ...11:10
diana_comanhey chetty how are you?11:10
Birdman2i dont think the q of enumeration or claim goes into its output11:10
diana_comanBirdman2 I don't follow your jumping around on this11:11
chettymaybe a little better but not yet ready to code11:11
diana_comanglad to hear you are getting better really, that's the more important part11:12
Birdman2what do you mean? The difference of output between your claims and my claims is nothing but ordinary, meaning its not any crazy difference that i havent seen between my own claims. at such a small sample size on an rng based game can you get a definitive answer? for you to have such a higher gathering level than me i'd assume the difference in output would be much greater but it didnt show numbers outside the11:15
Birdman2 normal variance that i get doing any other mining11:15
mircea_popescuBirdman2 do you have any training in statistics or such ?11:16
Birdman2Nope11:16
mircea_popescualright, well, variance is a term of art and also there's other problems.11:17
diana_coman^^11:17
mircea_popescu(should curiosity strike, variance, in both the theoretical and observational sense, exists strictly in reference to ONE data set. you can't have inter-dataset variance, unless you're doing some sort of meta study and the studies themselves are your datapoints, in which case the isntrumentation is more complex.)11:21
mircea_popescudiana_coman im realising that the general public problems with statistics are actually more or less reducible to a fundamental issue. statistics data is actually TAGGED data, like in lisp. layman intuits that socialism prevails, all numbers are numbers, and so therefore [any of the typical errors].11:22
mircea_popescuthinking back, in most cases where someone did something horrifying, the basic response always was "YOU CANT MIX THOSE!"11:23
mircea_popescu"why not"11:23
mircea_popescu"o gods!"11:23
Birdman2So i cant refer to the difference in outputs between my own mining results with itself and the differences between my mining results and those with diana's claims as variance, because variance is the change in one data point or whatever, alright that makes sense11:25
Birdman2one data point relative to itself11:25
mircea_popescujust bear in mind that statistics are the principal means politicians use to lie, because it's so easy.11:25
Birdman2what is it again danielpbarron11:26
Birdman2some quote about the best liars being statisticians11:26
Birdman2man someone's gotta mine those grass claims11:32
Birdman2i offered to buy them, i might even pay a ridiculous price just to clear them up11:32
mircea_popescuwut claims11:36
Birdman2there's a row of like 10-20 claims in the grass field  around -170 , -16311:39
mircea_popescuso good, they mark the spot11:40
* mircea_popescu appreciates some unmined wm claims down ehre.11:41
Birdman2i suppose so11:42
Birdman2though they get in my way, so whoever owns em should know ill buy11:43
diana_comanthat's a good observation mircea_popescu, can't dispute it for sure11:55
diana_comanin any case, ftr I am *not* a statistician myself either11:55
diana_comanI am aware of statistics, used statistics, needed statistics11:55
mircea_popescume either lol.11:56
diana_comanbut hey, I *know* statisticians and no, I'm not one of them11:56
Birdman2so mircea_popescu12:09
Birdman2how much grass will you be buying?12:09
Birdman2rickety reeds i thought i got the same hit % as grass but its considerably less12:10
mircea_popescuhttp://trilema.com/eulora-shop/#footnote_1_6257812:12
lobbesbotTitle: Eulora Shop on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. (at trilema.com)12:12
Birdman2:)12:13
Birdman2my hit rates for ordinaries seems to have gotten worse12:18
*** mircea_popescu is now known as Guest8810912:32
*** Joins: mircea_popescu (~Mircea@pdpc/supporter/silver/mircea-popescu)12:32
Birdman2cool item idea > keyring12:45
Birdman2higher q maybe higher capacity?12:45
mircea_popescuaha.12:45
Birdman2note that if you need to find a claim you missed, simply clicking the use button will say if it is used or not13:27
Birdman2no need to move materials in and out of claims13:27
diana_comanhmm, so 1 level up in building seems to give me quite unfailingly 1q point in everything; on the other hand, 2 levels up in farming gave me nothing13:38
mircea_popescucwazy13:40
diana_comanthe only kind of hypothesis I have so far is that I'm kind of way top on building while farming is unimpressive, though that doesn't sound like much of a theory13:41
diana_comanI think you are next in building mircea_popescu, aren't you?13:41
diana_comanwhat's your building level?13:41
mircea_popescupossibly. 37113:41
diana_comanhm, doesn't sound like a huge diff to my 40413:42
diana_comanalthough the levels around 400 were huge13:42
mircea_popescuyeah they vary13:58
mircea_popescudiana_coman what q farming do yo uget yet ?14:15
mircea_popescuand mining or lumberjack and basics ?14:15
mircea_popescuclosing this run, 265 / 800014:16
mircea_popescuie 0.03312514:17
diana_coman135 on farming now14:17
diana_comanneed to check the rest14:17
mircea_popescuplease do14:17
diana_coman116 mining14:19
diana_comanso 58 farming gives me...21 q points lolz14:19
diana_coman162 basics14:21
diana_coman102 sortage gives me 4814:21
*** Joins: nubbins`_ (~leel@unaffiliated/nubbins)14:21
* diana_coman still thinks the most likely thing is that Foxy is simply an idiot14:22
Birdman2you keep saying that foxy, do you think your int. effects some of this?14:22
chetty:P14:22
*** Quits: nubbins` (~leel@unaffiliated/nubbins) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)14:22
*** nubbins`_ is now known as nubbins`14:22
mircea_popescuim at 105 non-lj, about 200 basics and 200 lj.14:23
mircea_popescuso 37 lj gives me ~95, 282 sortage gives me... ~100 say.14:23
mircea_popescuclearly i'm talented at lj and you're talented at basics.14:24
mircea_popescuim certainly doing worse in basics than you are.14:25
Birdman2that would be cool game mechanics if your stats effected skills and all that14:25
mircea_popescuofcoursetheydo.14:25
Birdman2well then, eulora may just have potential to be the greatest rpg14:26
mircea_popescui think so.14:26
Birdman2mmm, ive always wanted to have a game that uses real money for the currency14:26
mircea_popescuayup14:27
Birdman2just wish i had started at the same time as you guys14:27
mircea_popescuwhy do you think it makes a difference ?14:27
Birdman2i could have done some things differently for sure14:27
mircea_popesculike what ?14:28
mircea_popescuin fact, going with a simple linear model for a second here, 58/21 = 2.761904762 ; 102/48 = 2.125 ; 37 / 95 = 0.389473684 ; 282 / 100 = 2.8214:31
Birdman2well i spent a week or two gathering at level one, and failed to realise i needed to train to progress, which led me to think the game sucked and stopped playing it for a month or so. so in that time I just feel i might have missed opportunity or a full understanding of the game14:31
mircea_popescuso you're ever so slightly better at sortage than me, much better at farming, but i totally MURDER it with lj.14:31
mircea_popescuBirdman2 well ok, but unlike every other mmorpg out there, the limiting factor in eulora isn't time.14:31
Birdman2right, to a degree14:32
mircea_popescuit's money. if you do things dumbly and waste a lot of ecus, they're gone. if you don't... you can keep playing14:32
Birdman2yeah i like that14:32
mircea_popescuso in this sense, it's never really "oh if i started earlier". like diana says, lemme get that quote14:32
mircea_popescuwas a great quote.14:32
mircea_popescuBy the way, don’t let me spoil those problems for you. Or the headaches for that matter. By all means, go ahead, dive straight in, bang your head, don’t read a single word further. No, seriously, I mean it, don’t read before play, who ever heard of that anyway? Especially if you have some BTC (or coppers) to burn, go ahead and burn them. I’ll wait until you’re done with that (it won’t be long).14:33
mircea_popescuDone? Good, now that you have no money and therefore nothing other to do than to start paying attention finally, here’s what is kind of clear1 at the moment:14:33
Birdman2which i did at first, i blew 10mil really fast, then dpb paid me for a days work and now have well over 10mil14:33
mircea_popescuit's like...14:33
mircea_popescupretty cool Birdman214:33
diana_coman<Birdman2> you keep saying that foxy, do you think your int. effects some of this? <- yes Birdman214:34
diana_comantalented at basics?14:34
diana_comanuhm14:34
mircea_popesculower is better.14:34
Birdman2next question: is there a mechanic that gives you an edge or disadvantage in certain things? So a mix of 'high intellegence lets you do this better' but also an unrelated 'this rng determined you have this much of an edge for this'?14:35
mircea_popescuwell, that's what statistics is for, neh ? to answer that type of q.14:36
Birdman2heh, i guess so, not sure why i thought you guys would know14:36
Birdman2i seem to think im fairly talented in gathering14:36
mircea_popescupossibru14:37
Birdman2oh, how can i see my stats now?14:37
diana_comanBirdman2 what we "know" is what we inferred through all previous playing + working at figuring it out basically14:37
mircea_popescuanyway, now that mining skills exist, mining makes a particularly informative comparison spot14:37
mircea_popescuim curious if any of the other miners be willing to share their ratios. mod6 danielpbarron whoever else got some14:38
mircea_popescujurov14:38
diana_comanand in some sense you are better off starting later as you don't *have to* (you have the choice to, of course) make the same mistakes that have been already made to learn something14:38
mircea_popescugranting, of course, the learning is actually correct.14:38
diana_comanI didn't say anything about learning, lol; I just said about mistakes14:39
mircea_popescucontrariwise, coming in earlier you're not enslaved by persuasive if erroneous "knowledge"14:39
diana_comanthere is there I did this and got that; now what you infer from it ...14:39
mircea_popescuwell yeah but what's a mistake.14:39
mircea_popescuactually this is very like how knowledge works irl huh.14:39
diana_comanof course14:40
diana_comanand btw ftr since I'm currently reading taleb, I think he'd love the game14:40
mircea_popescume2.14:40
mircea_popescuBirdman2 you can't see them.14:40
Birdman2but you used to right?14:41
diana_comanthey used to show in the first tab but the mysteriously vanished14:41
mircea_popescuat some point yeah.14:41
* mircea_popescu is curious as to how many people had the foresight to take screenshots14:41
Birdman2ah i see, so there are some game mechanics you want to keep hidden14:42
hanbot<14:42
diana_comanahahah, ALL of them Birdman214:42
Birdman2:p14:42
mircea_popescuhaha, smart play hanbot14:42
Birdman2hanbot sell me your grass claim keys14:42
mircea_popescuthey'll get exposed through mediated game things later Birdman214:42
mircea_popescusomething to do with oracles and calendars.14:42
hanbotBirdman2 it's not rly worth the time to me to sort out the keys. if i go through em someday i'll ping you14:43
Birdman2can i make it worth the time?14:43
mircea_popescubtw diana_coman you ever published the scripts i need to make maps out of my logs ?14:44
* mircea_popescu is kind-of lazy 14:44
diana_coman?? I published them, didn't I?14:45
diana_comanthe maps post http://www.dianacoman.com/2015/10/13/hic-sunt-flotsams-on-eulora-or-the-brand-new-foxymaps/14:45
diana_coman<mircea_popescu> in fact, going with a simple linear model for a second here, 58/21 = 2.761904762 ; 102/48 = 2.125 ; 37 / 95 = 0.389473684 ; 282 / 100 = 2.82 <- I think this shows you are talented in lj14:46
mircea_popescuo bless your heart!14:46
diana_comanother than that though...14:46
mircea_popescuawk too, no less. mwahahah this is epic.14:46
diana_comanI was fed up with gnuplot and so I hacked it, lol14:48
diana_comanI mean the "make a map" problem14:48
mircea_popescudiana_coman x11 i figure ?14:48
diana_comanyes, do you have trouble with it?14:49
mircea_popescunah just picking which one to install.14:49
mircea_popescuapparently x11 installs nox anyway14:50
diana_comangnuplot is quite powerfull really, but I couldn't find some well-written book/guide something to it14:50
diana_comanthat's why I did not mention it in the list, maybe I should add it anyway14:50
mircea_popescuheh. tried gnuplotorium.org ?14:50
diana_comanuhm, doesn't load anything for me?14:50
Birdman2hanbot is there an amount i can pay you to just forget about the claims and then ask mircea to get rid of them sometime?14:53
* diana_coman is thinking of spot-littering ransom business - sounds like it will pay more than bots or anything helpful for that matter14:54
Birdman2heh the thought crossed my mind too, cover someone's remarkables or ordinaries in smalls and tinies, or just make a spot un mineable14:55
diana_comanyou can't really14:55
diana_comanI can do it for your spots, but you can't do it for mine14:55
diana_comanmy bot doesn't care about your claims /density of claims14:55
Birdman2hm, if i clicked a wrong claim it wouldnt jam up or something?14:56
mircea_popescudo you know how to makew it plot larger than the viewport ?14:56
Birdman2it*14:56
diana_comancan't you make the window larger?14:56
mircea_popescuthan the viewport ? not trivially.14:56
diana_comanand  then hit replot (button in upper menu)14:56
mircea_popescuthis is after all dumbass x1114:56
diana_comanah14:56
diana_comanyou can zoom14:56
diana_comanno, I don't know14:57
diana_comanright-click will give you coordinates and select a starting point for the area to zoom14:57
mircea_popescuspiffy script tho14:58
mircea_popescuima be publishing in a sec14:58
diana_coman:)14:58
mircea_popescuany way to toggle the legend off ?15:00
diana_comanuhm, you could do it from the script but you'd need to take out the last part of each line basically15:01
diana_comanmaybe from options?15:01
diana_comanlet me have a quick look15:01
mircea_popescuwipe what, everything after pt ?15:01
diana_comanplot "< awk -F, '/Bitterbean/ {print $3,$5}' testall.csv" using 1:215:03
diana_comanlike that15:03
diana_comanso everything after that15:03
diana_comanusing 1:2 is the last thing on each line15:03
Birdman2seems my last level tipped some scale, and now my ratio of tinies:smalls is worse15:06
diana_comanstrictly speaking, the best is to delete just the t + name as that's the legend itself15:07
diana_comanthe rest is for setting the type of points used15:07
Birdman2off to rr to see changes, i regard rr as slightly harder or a claim to get, so if this last level really did make a slight difference, i should see nice results there15:17
Birdman2shit, apparently withdrawing from storage can switch around items15:20
Birdman2there goes some hoe q15:20
mircea_popescudiana_coman yes it does show lj as a major outlier.15:21
mircea_popescu18/406 in the new set.15:33
mircea_popescuwhich is .... 0.044!15:34
hanbotBirdman2 leaving aside the dubious outcome of such a proposition, no.15:38
Birdman2hm, alright then15:39
lobbesbotNews from eulora: Eulora as seen by Mircescu <http://trilema.com/2015/eulora-as-seen-by-mircescu/>15:47
Birdman2I had a feeling this would happen. I was in a sweet spot in the gathering level, far as grass goes i was between 73-80% to hit, and it was 100% smalls16:01
Birdman2besides one tiny and one ordinary over the thousands of claims i had gotten16:02
Birdman2now that i hit this level, tinies are prevelant16:02
Birdman2which are just a loss through and through considering my q output, and they mess with my lines of smalls and add extra effort16:02
Birdman2so the question is do i not level for awhile until i fall back into that spot, or do i try to level as much as possible to get to whatever point i get the better ratio + chances at ordinaries and up16:03
mircea_popescuBirdman2 100% smalls sounds pretty wild.16:10
Birdman2it was pretty wild for a min there man16:11
Birdman2think now its ~ 2.5:1 small to tiny16:11
mircea_popescuthousands of smalls ?!16:11
mircea_popescuahaha what!16:11
mircea_popescui get like... 10 tinies to the small ? or thereabouts.16:11
Birdman2i must have mined over a q mil grass yeah16:11
Birdman2heh16:11
Birdman2i didnt wanna let the cat out of the bag, but now that my ratio is all fucked whats it matter16:12
Birdman2i would only get tinies with regular tools16:12
mircea_popescuo so this was with sticks ?16:12
Birdman2imp tools16:13
*** Quits: nubbins` (~leel@unaffiliated/nubbins) (Quit: Quit)16:20
*** Joins: nubbins` (~leel@unaffiliated/nubbins)16:22
mircea_popescusoooo... it pleases me to announce that pursuant to studying the very strange matter of my outlier lj quality impact, i've found and fixed a few errors in how the quality and skill impact is calculated. one affected gathering. another affected tinkering. the third affected lumberjack. expect wildly different q outputs once the server comes back up.16:25
mircea_popescugoing down in anbout half hour, will be down maybe 5 minutes.16:25
Birdman2nice16:25
*** Quits: chetty (~marti@unaffiliated/chetty) (Quit: Leaving)16:25
* diana_coman scrambles to find in the logs the instances of mircea_popescu going "no, no, no there's NOTHING wrong with lumberjack "16:25
*** Joins: chetty (~marti@unaffiliated/chetty)16:26
mircea_popescuaha ?16:26
mircea_popescui said there's nothing wrong with grocery. amusingly, there isn't :D16:26
diana_comanI said "or lumberjack" and you said no16:28
mircea_popescui... guess.16:28
diana_comanhttp://logs.minigame.bz/2015-11-30.log.html#t08:31:2116:30
lobbesbotTitle: #Eulora log for Monday, 2015-11-30 (at logs.minigame.bz)16:30
diana_comanfound it :p16:30
mircea_popescuseems pretty weak eh ? :D16:30
diana_comanBirdman2> i would only get tinies with regular tools <- uhm, I got those smalls for you with regular tools16:31
diana_comanso even broken, gathering certainly still mattered16:32
Birdman2broken?16:32
Birdman2also, you =/ me lol i personally couldnt get tinies from regular tools whilist mining grass, rf, or rr16:32
diana_comansee above MP's statement re error16:32
diana_comandon't you think that has to do with gathering level diff?16:33
Birdman2i think thats almost entirely what it was16:33
Birdman2which is why i think i will stop leveling until i fall back into that sweet spot16:34
diana_comanoh, sweet spot theory, ok16:34
mircea_popescualrighty, tests passed. we're going down!16:34
diana_comanready16:34
Birdman2im all set16:34
mircea_popescuand we're back16:38
Birdman2now to run concrete numbers against my old grass numbers and see how much worse they are16:39
diana_comanmaybe they are better Birdman216:40
Birdman2whats worse is that it was already a congested area with those claims there, but now with added tinies in the mix its gonna be even worse16:40
mircea_popescuclaims go away in an hourish16:40
Birdman2i mean if this yield per claim is high enough to make it more profitable somehow yeah diana_coman16:40
Birdman2but i doubt that16:40
Birdman2the locked grass claims i mean16:41
diana_comanahahahahah, I get 109 on tinkering now16:42
diana_comanat least it is somewhere not in the fucking middle anymore no matter what, lolz16:42
mircea_popescuaaand my shrooms are now... q12416:44
mircea_popescugod damn it.16:44
mircea_popescuthis is by far the wrost part abouyt playing your own game : when you gotta nerf yourself.16:44
* mircea_popescu doesn't even dare look what his tinkering's at.16:44
Birdman2heh16:44
mircea_popescuprolly... 130 ?16:44
diana_comanwell, I'd say you got at least quite a bunch of high q tpt, wm and the like, not that bad altogether16:46
diana_comanmhm, so then you need to update the shop? or not?16:46
Birdman2there a command you can use to teleport to that orb?16:51
diana_comanno Birdman2, it does it automatically when you touch the map's edges basically16:51
diana_comanwell, SOME edges16:51
Birdman2hmm16:51
diana_comanit's a kind of slap on the wrists for going in forbidden places kind of, lol16:52
Birdman2right, im just trying to scheme ways to transport things16:52
diana_comanstill 116 on mining here16:52
diana_comaneasiest in my xp is to load them on a table and then drop /move/pickup/repeat it all the way to the village16:53
diana_coman(if they are on a table, you have less chances of having them go underground or something )16:53
Birdman2yeah same16:53
Birdman2though ive memorized all the pit falls between the grass and village16:53
diana_comanahaha16:54
diana_comanworks I guess16:54
Birdman2mostly need to watch out for steep hills and trees is what i gather from it16:54
diana_comanthat for sure, or otherwise put them on your head basically16:54
Birdman2but it gives you a little preview of where itll land so its not that sketchy16:54
diana_comanbut I find it easier with a big table, lol16:54
Birdman2yeah table helps to move more than one stack16:54
diana_coman+ that16:54
Birdman2and its taller so things can be redeemed if they fall in a hole16:54
Birdman2most holes that is, found a few that will swallow the hole thing16:55
diana_comanthat was my main point; and heh, see my solid branches adventure re "swallow"16:55
diana_comanstill 135 on farming here16:57
jurovBirdman2: imp hoes q 29768 are available for 70k here16:58
jurov(and anyone else)16:58
Birdman2i may wait until someone else makes it unless you can offer a better price, thats more than double the price i paid for the last batch for like 40% more uses16:59
diana_comanand 163q on basics after 1 level up in sortage, so kind of...same? lol16:59
jurovbut these are proclaimed splendiferous by none other than mircea mircescu17:00
diana_comanahahaha jurov17:00
diana_comanwhat q are you tinkering now?17:00
jurovlol 7517:01
jurovwas 105 for awhile, what did you do?17:01
diana_comanso you lost about 30 points? it's not that bad17:02
diana_comanI went from 167 to 10917:02
diana_comanso more like 60 points down, lol17:02
jurovor someone ate the clever beans or whatsitscalled17:03
diana_comanoh, no jurov, it was a correction, see mp's line above17:03
diana_comanon the bright side, I can actually overcraft now with my *own* basics, joy of joys17:04
jurovah ise17:04
diana_comanuhm, mircea_popescu now I leveled farming up from 60% with 1 ordinary while earlier it did not even budge (same level) with such pitiful offering; so if there was nothing wrong with farming is this an effect of gathering or what?17:13
diana_comanfarming and sortage in the gathering tab now, yaaay17:14
jurovsortage was always there17:16
diana_comanfarming was in tinkering by mistake17:17
jurovdoes farming anything interesting? can you /harvest?17:18
diana_comanfarming seems to improve my q on groceries17:19
jurovaok, i don't do groceries, not have hygienic clearance17:19
diana_comanand furthermore mircea_popescu now mcguyver output is ...the very same as tinker output despite a level of 200 in mcguyver??17:25
*** Quits: Birdman2 (~birdman@32.212.87.18) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)17:33
danielpbarronwhy are the threads that were in my inventory at quality 107 ?18:27
danielpbarroni understand that anything i tinker after this reset should come out to a lower quality, but those threads were made pre-reset18:27
danielpbarronthe threads that were in my storage are still 14218:27
danielpbarronfor the record, 1335 threads18:28
*** Joins: DianaComan (~diana_com@unaffiliated/diana-coman/x-8319396)19:58
*** Quits: DianaComan (~diana_com@unaffiliated/diana-coman/x-8319396) (Client Quit)20:00
*** Quits: diana_coman (~diana_com@unaffiliated/diana-coman/x-8319396) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)20:02
mircea_popescudanielpbarron possibly you added to the pile in your inv ?20:38
mircea_popescuin other sad news, 27/1347 = 0.02004454320:38
mircea_popesculol this pile of keys on the ground looks like an anthill20:40
mircea_popescuironically, my sm comes out 109.20:40
mircea_popescuaaaand i tinker q149 now.20:42
mircea_popescumeh.20:42
* mircea_popescu is at least happy he has some of diana's very good q160 cft.20:46
mircea_popescuHA! grass at q20720:48
mircea_popescuMWAHAHAHAHA! HAHA!20:48
*** Joins: diana_coman (~diana_com@unaffiliated/diana-coman/x-8319396)20:49
mircea_popescusoooo... i will be overcrafting mine owne grass nao!20:49
mircea_popescuand get more sortage therefore ans so on!20:49
diana_comanyes, that's the good part20:50
diana_comanit seems strange though the mcguyver, had a chance to look at it?20:50
mircea_popescuima have to see what it all did for the other craftlines.20:50
mircea_popescumno, what happened ?20:50
diana_comanmy mcguyver output is precisely the same as that of pure tinkering, while my mcguyver skill is 20020:50
diana_comansomehow it doesn't seem right, unless truly otherwise one gets some dismal stuff on mcguyver20:50
mircea_popescummm20:51
mircea_popescuyou mean the same as it used to be, or the same as it is now ?20:51
diana_comanno, no, the same now20:51
diana_comanI get 109 on tinkering20:51
diana_comanand 109 on mcguyver20:51
mircea_popescui'll be looking into this yeah.20:51
mircea_popescuwhat;s your tinkering skill ?20:52
diana_coman47020:52
mircea_popescucould also be coincidence.20:52
* diana_coman has no idea, hence asking20:53
diana_comanoh, and as mentioned earlier: farming now seems actually *easier* to level up20:56
diana_comanthe reset/update was in the middle of a 20-wwb ordinaries build run of mine20:56
diana_comanand the difference was quite clear (previously I'd need about 3 ordinaries to at least notice the difference in the bar while now each ordinary would increase the skill quite clearly (3-4 ordinaries got me 1 level up)20:57
diana_comaningredients were the same btw20:58
mircea_popescudiana_coman farming wasn't touched tho.20:59
diana_comanthen something of what was touched touches upon it20:59
diana_comanthe only conclusion I can get to, really20:59
diana_comanpossibly gathering I suppose20:59
mircea_popescunot sure how that'd work.21:02
danielpbarronmircea_popescu> danielpbarron possibly you added to the pile in your inv ? << i had not crafted anything since the restart21:25
mircea_popescuthen i have nfi, other than "this isn't possibru". items aren't involved / weren't touched21:26
danielpbarrondid the quality change happen before the restart?21:27
mircea_popescuthis is possible tho shouldn't be the case.21:29
mircea_popescuin any case danielpbarron : log off, say when you're logged off an' i'll fix 'em for ya.21:38
jurovfoxybot won't train tinkering, despite it says it will , and not overweight after moving materials into crafttable22:36
jurovis it possible to search in system messages?22:41
diana_comanjurov check in the log if you log all the stuff in the main window22:44
diana_comanif it says it tries to train, then it sends the message22:44
diana_comanbut something might go wrong22:44
diana_comanmost probably you are too far away from heina?22:44
jurovwhen i move stuff to table and train by hand it goes fine22:45
jurovwithout moving22:45
jurovwhere it should be logged? it isn't in chat log22:50
*** Quits: Guest88109 (~Mircea@pdpc/supporter/silver/mircea-popescu) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)22:51
diana_comanuhm, what's in the chat log depends on your settings22:51
diana_comanbut if it's not there, then I don't know of any other place to find it22:51
*** Quits: mircea_popescu (~Mircea@pdpc/supporter/silver/mircea-popescu) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)22:51
diana_comanthe bot doesn't log errors (as "error" is not easily defined really)22:52
diana_comanscrolling up in your chat window?22:52
diana_comandid it train tinkering before and now all of a sudden it fails?22:52
*** Quits: diana_coman (~diana_com@unaffiliated/diana-coman/x-8319396) (Quit: Leaving)22:58
*** Joins: mircea_popescu (~Mircea@pdpc/supporter/silver/mircea-popescu)23:09
jurovit did train before, except when i was overweight23:10
jurovafter putting materials to table23:10
jurovfuu and now i have made 19 slag bundles?23:11
mircea_popescufortunately table has no decay so no big deal23:12
*** Joins: diana_coman (~diana_com@unaffiliated/diana-coman/x-8319396)23:14
diana_comanjurov that sounds like a mix-up/connection thing23:14
diana_comanftr I just had an awful time connecting to eulora23:14
diana_comandelayed messages and the like23:14
diana_comangot out of the game and then I had problems getting back in23:14
diana_comanthat annoying thing when it says the server is up but then it fails to connect23:15
diana_comanrepeatedly23:15
diana_comanjurovfuu and now i have made 19 slag bundles? <- this esp is something you'd get if messages start coming totally out of order23:16

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