#Eulora log for Tuesday, 2016-02-16

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mircea_popescumerchant/storage now fixed to show correct bv.00:01
danielpbarron!!!00:01
mircea_popescuwhat ?00:01
danielpbarroncool!00:02
danielpbarronalthough ironically this will make it harder to price things00:02
mircea_popescu:)00:02
mircea_popescuhahahaha00:02
* diana_coman wanted to say that we prolly got used to it by now00:02
mircea_popescuanyone got a large pile of high q pss ?00:03
mircea_popescuthe nosehairs still cracking me up00:06
Birdmanmircea_popescu what would ya sell some shredding instructions for?00:35
mircea_popescuuh.00:35
mircea_popescu200% ?00:35
Birdmanhmmm00:36
Birdmanwell what q are they in the first place?00:36
Birdmanand can i pay you for those bouq books?00:39
Birdmanif anyone is interested in stacks of cft bps ranging between q 30-40 im selling, 18ecu per00:58
danielpbarronyeah i'll buy a stack01:01
danielpbarronhow many you got?01:01
Birdman~50k of em01:01
Birdmanjust 9999?01:02
danielpbarronnah i'll take it all i guess01:03
Birdmanmircea_popescu diana_coman do i smell an auction?01:03
* danielpbarron glares01:03
BirdmanDemand suddenly skyrocketed01:04
danielpbarronthen don't wait till after you quote a price and someone accepts it to start an auction01:04
Birdmanim entirely not concerned with etiquette in business01:05
danielpbarronsavage01:05
BirdmanAuctioning 279 stone adze bps q44, 15 cruddy hoe bps q39, 31 stone pick bps q38 starting at 325k ending in 24 hours01:15
danielpbarron325k here01:16
Birdman325k heard danielpbarron // do you want to do that cs deal orr.. gonna be afk for a bit so i wanna set the bot up01:18
danielpbarronwhat deal01:18
Birdman9 cs uses for 10 cs01:19
danielpbarroni really want pacademia nut ords01:22
danielpbarronor smalls even01:24
danielpbarronless than 50 smalls might just do it01:25
Birdmani can run cs on it for you01:26
Birdmanbut the hit r8 isnt so gr801:26
danielpbarronwell last time you tried you said it was a bunch of misses01:26
Birdman0/201:26
danielpbarronwhat if you hit it with adzes?01:26
Birdmanyou supplyin the adzes?01:26
danielpbarronmaybe01:27
danielpbarroncan you test first01:27
Birdmannot wasting my own tools for testing that01:27
Birdmanand the bot wouldnt lock em01:27
danielpbarroni'll give you 1 adze for whatever the result of using it is01:27
danielpbarronjust edit the source code01:27
danielpbarronit's a simple fix01:27
Birdmanalright01:27
danielpbarronlol01:27
Birdmanbut itd take me a bit to figure it out01:28
Birdmancan you tell me what to edit?01:28
danielpbarronthat would be well worth figuring out01:28
danielpbarronyeah it's just one line that you add01:28
danielpbarronthe if statement is already there it just doesn't do anything01:28
DicePowerFound a character that dies instantly to the orb.01:42
DicePowerIt takes 2 hits, but the orb seems to hit twice at once (sometimes thrice).01:42
Birdmanhow much hp loss? we all have the same hp01:42
Birdmansays on the main chat window01:42
DicePowerIs that X/100 a percentage though?01:42
DicePowerWe either have different defenses, or that number is being expressed as a percentage, and we have different healths.01:43
danielpbarronBirdman, apparently we don't01:43
danielpbarronas DicePower has figured out01:43
DicePowerFrom what I can tell from the brief moment the HP jump to before dying, I took 64% Health, 55% Blood, and 30% Spirit per hit.01:44
DicePowerI'll put it this way.01:44
Birdmanwhaat thats crazy01:44
Birdmangood find01:44
DicePowerSome characters take 2 hits to die to the orb (well this was the first character that died THAT quickly).01:44
DicePowerSome take 8.01:44
DicePowerSo there's a HUGE range.01:44
Birdman8?? mine takes 3 iirc01:45
DicePowerBased just on the character's stats.01:45
DicePowerWhich are invisible01:45
DicePowerlol01:45
DicePowerThat's WAAAAY more influential than IVs are in Pokemon :P01:45
DicePowerFor health, some characters take as little as 7% per hit, some take 64.01:46
danielpbarronyeah i die pretty fast at the orb01:46
danielpbarronnot one hit, but not 801:46
DicePowerFor blood, the range is like 13 - 55 so far.01:47
DicePowerThat's from 17 samples.01:47
DicePowerAs you gain skill, I assume you improve upon your base defensive ability?01:48
DicePowerSo that it takes more hits to kill you now, than when you first started playing?01:49
danielpbarronnobody has those skills yet01:49
DicePowerAhhhh01:50
DicePowerSo shifting gears a bit, what are the main activities in Eulora (that would likely be influenced by underlying stats)?  I know there's mining and crafting.01:51
danielpbarronwe have : gathering, tinkering, building. sortage, mining, farming, lumberjack. mcguyvering, bouqinism, lapidary, gung-ho gumbo. sacrifice.01:51
DicePowerWoah01:51
DicePowerNice01:51
danielpbarronsortage mining farming and lumberjack are sorta sub-skills that enhance other skills01:52
danielpbarronmostly building01:52
danielpbarronbut sortage also goes with tinkering01:52
DicePowerAre there any of these that are more amenable to full automation than others?  Or is it expected that they can all be performed even AFK, once FoxyBot is fully developed?01:52
danielpbarronmcguyver, bouqinism, lapidary, and gung-ho  are effected by tinkering and go each with their own different crafting table01:53
danielpbarroni think so far they could theoretically be automated but i doubt sacrifice is01:53
danielpbarronjust me and one other have it, and each click is so expensive it's kinda like a ritual to even do it01:54
danielpbarronplus the bigger sacrifices take hours anyway01:54
DicePowerOkay01:54
DicePowerI ask because in other games, I've tended toward professions that can be skilled/performed while away from the computer.01:55
DicePowerThis usually equals crafting, at least in the case of Entropia.01:55
DicePowerWhereas, say, mining requires constant user interaction.01:55
danielpbarronno we automate even that01:56
DicePowerJust wasn't sure how the different activities in this game were set up in terms of being suitable for automation.01:56
danielpbarronalthough i don't know how easy that'll be when ennumerations aren't free anymore01:56
danielpbarronwell building alone isn't automated yet01:57
danielpbarronbut if you build while gathering it is01:57
DicePowerSo the only barrier to automation is whether you have the funds to run the bot continuously?01:57
danielpbarronyeah pretty much01:57
DicePowerGathering is automated?01:57
danielpbarronwith foxybot yeah01:58
DicePowerSweet01:58
danielpbarronyou can even do it barehanded for free01:58
danielpbarronsince death isn't permanent01:58
DicePowerAnd I imagine the thing or two that isn't will be at some point.01:58
danielpbarronit knows to /die when your health gets too low01:58
danielpbarronthe only limit is yours or anyones ability to modify the client source code01:58
danielpbarroneventually there'll probably be a shopbot for people who just want to buy/sell things all day while they are away01:59
DicePowerSo that's good news, although it doesn't give me any ideas on how I might want to personalize my character's stats :P01:59
danielpbarronyeah i don't know what to even recommend01:59
DicePowerHow about the scalability of each activity in the game?02:00
DicePowerSo like02:00
DicePowerIf you somehow find a way to profit at something02:00
danielpbarroni guess maybe we need more gatherers? since us high rank tinkerers are still paying crazy high (in my opinion) prices for harvestables02:00
danielpbarronalthough that slag went for a lot today too02:00
danielpbarronso maybe we need more low rank tinkerers02:01
DicePowerIf you somehow manage to find a particular activity profitable, are there some activities that lend themselves to playing at higher stakes than others?02:01
danielpbarroni think maybe we need a spectrum of tinkerers so that the products can get passed up the line  or something02:01
danielpbarronwell sacrifice is the highest stakes02:02
danielpbarroneach click costs millions02:02
DicePowerSo each activity has only a single stakes option?02:02
danielpbarronthat's where new skills come from02:02
danielpbarronthe stakes are simply what value you put into it02:02
danielpbarronand in sacrfice, there's expensive wine, expensive skill items, expensive altar use02:03
mircea_popescuBirdman> and can i pay you for those bouq books? << kinda not wanting to burn bps now lol02:03
danielpbarronin tinkering you can tune the stakes way down to only a few copper a click probably02:03
danielpbarronalthough with blueprint shortage, who knows02:03
DicePowerOkay, so if you find yourself profiting $1 per hour doing some activity, you can arbitrarily choose to ten-fold your bet size doing the same exact activity, yielding a $10/hour profit (assuming you can still find buyers for what you're producing)?02:04
DicePowerAnd there's no real limit to the scaling in any activity?02:04
danielpbarronuh.. no02:05
DicePower(other than supply and demand)02:05
danielpbarronstake isn't the right word to use probably02:05
DicePowerokay02:05
danielpbarronthis isn't gambling in the slot machine sense02:06
DicePowerGot it02:06
danielpbarronthe game is supposedly balanced to where it all evens out02:06
DicePowerBase value wise02:06
danielpbarronthe 'house' makes money when you mess up, and i guess in the future it will sell drinks02:06
DicePowerLet me try another analogy and see if it has any application in this game.02:07
danielpbarronsometimes you mix two piles of different quality and it rounds down. you just lost value. the shareholders of s.mg get the value02:07
DicePowerIf I'm playing a game where I hunt creatures for loot.02:07
DicePowerahhh02:08
danielpbarronyeah that's gonna be a crazy balancing act. the loot from mosters balanced with your odds of getting hit and having to pay to heal up02:09
DicePowerIf there is a game where you hunt creatures (for a cost) and receive loot (the payback), and you're using a certain weapon on a certain creature, you might, on average, lose $3 per hour, or profit $2 per hour (random numbers).  By getting a new weapon with increased damage per second, you can kill the same creature faster, and maybe double the outcome to a loss of $6 per hour in the first case, or a profit of $4 per hour02:11
DicePowerin the other case.02:11
DicePowerIs there an analogy to the damage per second upgrade in Eulora?02:11
DicePowerOr would you have to change activities completely, or use a blueprint for a different item for example, in order to spend more per hour?02:13
danielpbarronwhat you said sounds about right02:14
danielpbarronin gathering we have a range of tools to use02:14
DicePowerDoes it depend on the activity at all?02:14
danielpbarronbasic tools, improved tools, and chetty sticks02:14
danielpbarronsorta02:14
DicePowerOr it sounds right for every activity?02:14
danielpbarronthere are three different basics and three different improved02:14
danielpbarronand the hypothesis so far is each of the three tools coresponds to each of the three sub-skills to gathering02:15
DicePowerinteresting02:15
danielpbarronthat is:  cruddy hoe -> farming,   stone pickaxe -> mining,   stone adze -> lumberjack02:15
danielpbarronthey all work on whichever thing your are gathering02:15
danielpbarronbut i think you get better results if you use the right one02:16
danielpbarroni also think barehanded is best for basics02:16
danielpbarronbasics are effected by the sortage skill02:16
danielpbarroni guess noobs can profit using tools on basics, but i have a high rank in gathering and i get pretty good results with no tool02:17
danielpbarronmaybe even the highest rank, unclear if anyone overtook me yet02:17
danielpbarronbut i was first to 400 :D02:17
DicePowerNice :)02:18
danielpbarronwe get the skill book named after us if we are first to a multiple of 20002:19
danielpbarronthat's the only one i got so far02:19
mircea_popescudanielpbarron> eventually there'll probably be a shopbot for people who just want to buy/sell things all day while they are away << irc this project was even specced in the logs, and of course there's a reward for completion.02:19
mircea_popescuDicePower> Let me try another analogy and see if it has any application in this game. <<  you know you could just actually try playing for a few hours/days/whatever02:21
mircea_popescurather than doing this bizarre abstract fandango02:21
DicePowerWhat's a "playing" in this game?02:22
mircea_popescui dunno, go mine, or craft something02:22
DicePowerIt's a vicious cycle :P02:23
mircea_popescufor instance i'm making charcoal atm. danielpbarron is probably mining or cutting wood or something02:23
mircea_popescuor fucking with the storage by the looks of it lol02:23
DicePowerhehe02:24
DicePowerSo when your character dies, do you keep your items/BTC/skills if and only if you had a child?02:25
DicePowerOnce death is permanent I mean.02:26
mircea_popescuatm you keep everything anyway02:26
mircea_popescuwell no, you keep whatever the child got.02:26
danielpbarroni'm messing with storage a lot it seems02:26
DicePowerSo you lose your BTCs and items on the dead character?02:26
mircea_popescuyep.02:26
DicePowerCan you just trade them all to the child before death02:27
DicePower?02:27
mircea_popescusure.02:27
mircea_popescuthe normal mode for most people would be to promote a kid to the clan leadership and send the old guy to smoke opium or something.02:27
mircea_popescumost people wouldn't normally be spending that much time in the face of life danger.02:27
mircea_popescuwell, unless a town is sacked or something.02:27
DicePowerOkay, so you won't die from falling 3 feet like you do now :D02:28
mircea_popescunah.02:28
mircea_popescuand combat won't be the usual mmorpg sort, either.02:28
DicePowerI guess the point of death is so that skills can't be traded over and no one ever gets too much skill in the game.02:28
mircea_popescuskills will actually be tradeable, as an application of magic / faith.02:29
DicePowerohhh02:29
danielpbarronwell now..02:30
DicePowerSo really, the only thing you're losing are your inherent stats.02:30
mircea_popescu"and here's your father's anal beads. stick them in, learn what he kn ew."02:30
danielpbarronthis convo almost feels qntrable02:30
mircea_popescu:)02:30
mircea_popescuDicePower not exactly lose, either. they mingle with the mother's to make the kid in thefirst place.02:30
DicePowerHmmmm02:31
mircea_popescudanielpbarron yeah, the plan is that there's this magical gem, you do the right chanting/cast the right spell, whoop your tinkering skill is now inside.02:32
mircea_popescusome costs / lossage involved in the process, but principally speaking - there you go.02:32
DicePowerSo is it possible to end up, several generations later, with a completely different stat distribution, or do you have to delete your character and start over if you wanted to have one that was built for a different task?02:32
mircea_popescui would expect it's possible yes.02:33
DicePowerWhat does the average life expectancy look like?02:33
mircea_popescubout two years. aka 104 game years.02:34
mircea_popescumaybe a little under.02:34
mircea_popescudepends how well you eat.02:34
DicePowerOkay, and if you go into dangerous areas could be killed instantly ofc.02:34
mircea_popescuyes, if you're insane enough to just wander into mordor, you'll go splat.02:35
DicePowerSo I feel like Health, Blood, and Spirit are probably indeed very important areas to optimize.02:35
DicePowerYou said that spirit = 0 will cause death in the future, right?02:35
mircea_popescudepends how much time you plan to spend in harm's way.02:35
mircea_popescua crafter wouldn't muich care.02:35
hanbot<mircea_popescu> for instance i'm making charcoal atm. danielpbarron is probably mining or cutting wood or something << i'm dragging boulders!02:35
mircea_popescuhey hanbot what q pss do you make ?02:36
hanbot100 even02:37
mircea_popescumeh!02:37
DicePowerSo even for a crafter, if he's out exploring, or something unexpected happens (or a programming glitch for that matter lol), it seems like having higher health/blood gives you significantly more time to get out of harm's way.02:37
hanbotaww02:38
DicePowerLike up to a factor of 4x at least.02:38
mircea_popescuan important aspect here is that as game progresses, you'll be building retinues etc.02:38
mircea_popescumight as well hire a bunch of npc servants.02:38
mircea_popescuor whatever, become a lich and raise the dead.02:38
mircea_popescuthe game intends to be versatile.02:38
mircea_popescubut in general - a player determined enough should be able to build his own fucking castle. especially if coming from a rich clan and so on.02:39
DicePowerOhh, so death might not be 100% permanent?02:39
mircea_popescunothing is 100%.02:39
DicePowerThere might be revivals and such02:39
DicePowerNice02:39
DicePowerSo if you died with 5 BTC in hand.02:39
mircea_popescuthere's a number of transforms that make you immortal planned. they however.... come with drawbacks.02:39
DicePowerThere's hope to get it back.02:39
mircea_popescumno.02:40
DicePowerSo this sounds pretty cool02:41
mircea_popescuthe best plan is to die in controlled circumstances.02:41
DicePowerIt's making the stat personalization harder lol02:42
DicePowerBut it sounds cool02:42
mircea_popescuthat's the plan02:43
DicePowerDo you think a character might find a way to alter their own hidden stats someday?02:44
mircea_popescuwell at the very least find out to some degree what they are.02:44
DicePowerOr is that foundational to a character02:44
DicePowerWell yeah02:45
mircea_popescuthere's no telling what powerful artefacts lie hidden in the close embrace of the earth.02:45
DicePowerhehe02:45
DicePowerI think a character can tell what they are in a few days plotting data points in Excel :)02:45
mircea_popescuwell... do that, show it off, we'll see how it goes.02:46
DicePowerIf they have the funds to test everything02:46
mircea_popesculol.02:46
mircea_popescuconsidering people have been testing for months now, and spent in excess of a billion doing so... your thought is unpersuasive.02:46
DicePoweroh wow02:47
DicePowerAre you talking about figuring out the loot formula?02:47
DicePowerBecause that I could see.02:47
mircea_popescuand for all that trouble it's not clear a single question has in fact been answered02:47
mircea_popescuor even validated.02:47
mircea_popescumno, i'm talking about simpler things such as "what is the fair price for this here item".02:47
DicePowerahhh02:48
mircea_popescuyou really should read the logs, a wealth of info in there.02:48
DicePowerDefinitely will before too long, I've already read most of the things that were linked to me.02:48
DicePowerWould be interesting to see if a character dies of old age, how long they can live again once revived.02:49
mircea_popescuso i'm making poc q 144. so far in 75 clicks on q202 bundle i got ... 0 extra items.02:50
mircea_popescuthis fuckiung blows.02:50
DicePower:(02:50
mircea_popescurevived ?02:55
DicePower"or whatever, become a lich and raise the dead."02:56
mircea_popescuif the lich happens to raise your auntie, it would be as a npc zombie or somesuch.02:56
DicePowerOhhh, what did you mean by the best plan it do die in controlled circumstances then?02:57
mircea_popescuthat you won't lose much by dying in your own bed.02:57
DicePowerYou lose everything that you didn't trade, don't you?02:58
mircea_popescumyeah.02:58
*** Quits: bagels7 (~bagels7@unaffiliated/bagels7) ()03:07
Birdmanwelp i books or no books i guess i should be shredding huh04:08
Birdmanill buy em at 200% mircea_popescu04:08
Birdmandiana_coman if i were to leave the bot to gather close to the trainer, would it train?04:08
mircea_popescuhow many do you want ?04:15
Birdman52604:20
* danielpbarron blinks04:20
mircea_popescuaite lemme fish them out04:20
danielpbarroni guess i lost track of what was offered. otherwise that sounds like a whole coin. and I don't mean the million coin04:21
mircea_popescuok trade me04:22
mircea_popescu526 * 172 * 1.86 * 2  = 336555.8404:23
mircea_popescuenjoy04:24
Birdmantyvm04:25
Birdmanhella expensive bits im about to make though huh04:25
mircea_popescuwell, 526 bps should create 27089 bits.04:26
mircea_popescuso that's ~12.5 copper per bit from the cost of recipes.04:27
mircea_popescufigure another... 40 or so from the tool i guess ?04:27
Birdmanyeah forgot they are in the ingreds too :s04:27
Birdmannot to mention the rest of the bps cost04:27
mircea_popescuyeh. shredding suddenly a rather expensive activity. AGAIN.04:28
mircea_popescuhopefully people took advantage of the niche of abundance made hughe lbn stacks.04:28
Birdmanmight even hold off, wanted to be able to bare handed build tinies but my q output will just make it a loss. Was thinking with the bouq books the bit q would be enough to over craft decent on something like grass, then tinker into threads for a profit04:29
Birdmanno books means not high enough q bits04:29
mircea_popescuwell... you could barehanded build every OTHER tiny.04:31
Birdmanidk man, i just dont know04:31
Birdmanalot has changed, gonna scheme a bit and see where my effort is best used at the moment04:32
mircea_popescusee cuz key gives you a lbn04:33
Birdmanoh ya ya no kiddin04:34
Birdmanbut teh bot drops em04:34
Birdmanfor now im burning the rest of my tools on grass to tinker some threads, then in the meantime maybe theres some new bouq stuff i can start doing or get my gathering high enough to bare handed smalls or somethin04:35
danielpbarronBirdman> but the bot drops em << you can tell it not to04:37
danielpbarronflip the '1' to a '0'04:37
danielpbarronand you don't need to do every other to get keys04:37
danielpbarronyou get the key regardless of whether you build the claim04:38
Birdmanyeah04:38
danielpbarronso at the moment barehanded gathering can be a totally zero input thing04:38
danielpbarronfree money basically04:38
danielpbarronyou just need a buffer of bits for however many keys you can hold at once04:39
danielpbarronwhen inventory is full, relog and repeat04:39
danielpbarronyou can also follow me around as i go; saving keys is too much of a pain for me04:39
danielpbarronfree keys in my claims04:39
mircea_popescuoh yeah good point.04:42
mircea_popescupretty reasonable 0 cost options for players.04:43
danielpbarronit's not unlike mining bitcoin, in that it's probably more cost effective to just buy some (in this case, coppers)04:59
DicePowerIs there a file somewhere in the Eulora folder or in AppData or something that stores non-hidden avatar info, like Weight, Capacity, current Health, etc.?05:23
diana_coman<Birdman> diana_coman if i were to leave the bot to gather close to the trainer, would it train? <- no, the explore part does not train07:27
diana_coman<danielpbarron> i guess maybe we need more gatherers? since us high rank tinkerers are still paying crazy high (in my opinion) prices for harvestable <- do you mean the 125%?07:31
diana_comanBirdman, 350k on the tool bps07:40
*** Quits: davout (~david@unaffiliated/davout) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)07:43
*** Joins: davout (~david@unaffiliated/davout)07:47
Birdman350k heard diana_coman09:29
Birdmanseems i average a bit over 1 grass per tiny and almost exactly 1 tiny per ten barehanded tries10:48
Birdmanwith a small or two thrown in every now and again10:48
mircea_popescubps ? what bps.11:53
mircea_popescuah i c.11:54
mircea_popescu(279*.44 + 15 *.39 + 31*.38)*10000 = 1403900 / 350k = 249%11:55
mircea_popescubps through da roof!11:55
mircea_popescuthe funny part is that i can't even decide if i won't later regret not bidding now.11:55
danielpbarronprices for harvestable <- do you mean the 125%? << I mean qi stuff12:18
danielpbarron368k Birdman12:18
*** Joins: fghj (~fghj@gti6.internetdsl.tpnet.pl)12:51
mircea_popescuaaand now i mine 22914:26
jurovDicePower: there is folder in appdata with stuff like chat logs, but all character info comes solely from server.14:59
jurovDicePower: I have a version with greedy logging tho, it logs the stats too. You can pull it from git and compile.15:13
lobbesbot`News from eulora: Eulora auction, February the 21st <http://trilema.com/2016/eulora-auction-february-the-21st/>16:00
diana_comanuhm, so I stored 11766, 14535 and 3923 feelings (3 stacks, that's how they were in my inventory16:32
diana_comanbut now storage shows only 12274?16:33
diana_comanand those were high q (120) feelings16:33
mircea_popescuugh16:33
diana_comanmircea_popescu, any idea ? ^16:33
diana_comanor they got somehow mixed up with the rest?16:34
diana_comanugh16:34
mircea_popescui've never heard of something like this.16:35
diana_comanI'm not really sure how it made the piles in the first place really16:35
danielpbarroni also have >9999 feelingses piles from Nidhogg16:36
mircea_popescuit happens via loot16:37
diana_comanbut danielpbarron did you store them without problem?16:37
diana_comanbecause yes, they seem to have appeared via loot (I've been making loads of shaped slag)16:37
danielpbarroni think so16:37
diana_comanhm16:37
danielpbarroni looks like some of the piles are out of order16:38
danielpbarroni thought i put all the >9999 ones in first16:38
danielpbarronbut i see some exactly 9999 ones above on the list16:38
diana_comanwell, at this moment I am more concerned about whether some got lost on the way to storage basically due to the numbers, but will have to go through the whole list and then add everything up to figure that one out16:39
diana_comanbecause I suppose they might have gotten onto other existing stacks with same q16:39
mircea_popescudiana_coman you have 36195 feelings q12016:40
mircea_popescuwhat storage did was create 9999 stacks out of your larger ones.16:40
danielpbarroni don't see anything obviously amiss in my numina storage16:40
diana_comanbut not out of all ?16:40
mircea_popescuit's kinda weird. but it doesn't lose the items, just... fucks the arrangement up a little.16:41
diana_comanthat was kind of my hope but it looks so weird because of the remaining stack of 1227416:42
diana_comanI found meanwhile the stacks indeed so now they are 3923+12274+9999+999916:42
diana_comanwhere it added to some older stacks I think, I'd need to go through the logs to figure out exactly what was the conf before, ugh16:42
mircea_popescubasically diana_coman if you have say 5555 q 120 in storage and add a 11111 stack, it will make a 9999 stack out of the first, and leave the 2nd 11111-4444 inside.16:44
mircea_popescuit doesn't recurse through this process tho.16:44
diana_comanoh16:44
jurovtime to throw alloca() into it16:45
diana_comanbut then why the 9999 limit in the first place if it doesn't truly enforce it in practice anyway all the time?16:45
diana_comanweird stuff16:45
mircea_popescumixed bag.16:47
jurov"9999 ought to be enough for anybody."16:48
mircea_popescueh actually the design demands infinite stacks, will eventually be displayed as 99mn or w/e16:49
mircea_popescuwe're just not there yet.16:49
diana_comanmircea_popescu, I have everything for 100 adzes whenever you are in town (it's ~120q the stuff but that's still undercraft for you)16:51
mircea_popescudoing a large cr cs run atm, prolly tonight.16:51
diana_comankk, still waiting on wyrd for the output on another ltf run so that I can get another 100 pickaxes I think16:51
mircea_popescucool16:52
danielpbarronoh hey, i just got loot from tinkering a bundle that had the same quality as my output17:01
mircea_popescusweet huh17:01
jurovwhat bundle?17:25
danielpbarronstone adze17:51
diana_comanoh, you making the tool yourself danielpbarron ? what q do you tinker at?17:56
diana_comanoh wow, 109? so losing what, 1/3 in durability?18:16
*** Quits: hanbot (~hanbot@unaffiliated/hanbot) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)18:22
danielpbarronlosing?19:01
diana_comancompared to the case when MP would make the tools19:05
danielpbarronif Mircea wants this exp he can make me an offer19:05
diana_comanlol19:05
diana_comanif it's for xp, why tools exactly but whatevs19:05
danielpbarrontwo birds19:06
diana_comanwell, you basically value the xp at that 1/3 of the tool19:18
jurovyep, why don't you buy tinker/sortage buffs from mircea?19:23
jurovinteresting how every player has strikingly different take on this19:23
mircea_popescuinnit ?19:25
diana_comanI think it's more the context that makes one take more appealing than another to a player as I know I keep having to make this kind of choice (do I value the xp on this more? or the durability? etc)19:41
danielpbarrondiana_coman> well, you basically value the xp at that 1/3 of the tool << also my saved sanity in not having to negotiate every last thing with other players, and also i'm getting not-low-quality petrified things19:42
danielpbarronjurov> yep, why don't you buy tinker/sortage buffs from mircea? << do what now? I'm way too high rank to benefit from any skillbooks19:43
juroviirc there are some skill items to go to level 200?20:07
mircea_popescu400 even20:08
danielpbarroni'm over 400 in tinkering20:08
danielpbarronand i don't think the sortage book for 100-200 exists yet20:08
jurovand sortage?20:08
jurovoh that20:08
mircea_popescui'm ALMOST 400 sortage.20:08
danielpbarroncrazy20:08
*** Joins: hanbot (~hanbot@unaffiliated/hanbot)20:48
Birdman368k heard danielpbarron21:24
jurovBirdman do you auction 50k or 9999?21:37
BirdmanI'll acuction 50k at that starting price21:38
Birdmanyou mean the cft bps yeah?21:38
jurovi'm confused21:38
jurovyou have 2 auctions?21:38
Birdmanyes21:38
danielpbarroncurrent auction is for tool blueprints21:39
jurovand the cft one is closed?21:40
BirdmanSo, auctioning 50k cft bps of varying qualities between 30-40 for 1mn ending in 24 hours21:41
danielpbarronlol 1mn21:42
mircea_popescuwhat's that, like 300% ?21:42
danielpbarronmore even21:43
danielpbarronthat wasn't a bid by me21:43
danielpbarronjust to clarify21:43
mircea_popescusadly we have nfi how hard to get will these be.21:44
danielpbarronwell i still have quite a few stacks21:44
mircea_popescui got some too yet yeah21:44
mircea_popescuit's what kept me from the tool bp auction too. nfi wtf.21:44
jurovBirdman pm21:45
Birdmannew mining tools flooded market, not more bps loot, mp just got a remark of grass, figured it was a good time to dump21:46
mircea_popescuthe reasoning is solid.21:46
mircea_popescualso, i will be digging up my OTHER grass remarkable. so there!21:46
mircea_popescuBirdman it's pretty clear at this point no more bps will be made for a while, so might as well sit on them. maybe try chaining it after sundayu's s.mg auction or somesuch21:47
mircea_popescupeople DO use cft, and bps, so the stocks are drawing down. i lost like 10% this week21:47
danielpbarronand maybe try starting the auction at base value !!21:47
Birdmandanielpbarron ill try bv when im selling to an npc alright?21:48
Birdmanbut yes i could see bps appreciating, but the auction still stands if theres interest21:48
mircea_popescuthis is really not how auctions work tho21:50
diana_comanI also have cft bps quite a few, so not interested in that21:51
danielpbarronif neither myself Mircea or Diana are willing to place the first bid, the auction is kinda dead in the water, no?21:52
diana_coman<Birdman> new mining tools flooded market <- ?? what?21:52
Birdmanim ok with that21:52
Birdmanehh meant mining skills21:52
diana_comanwhere's that flood of new mining tools?21:52
diana_comanoh, lol21:52
Birdmanlj and mining etc lol21:52
danielpbarron(mining is for sale in Daniel's Shop)21:53
Birdmanbare handed is working out pretty damn well for me21:53
diana_comangood for you then, there's still demand for resources for sure anyway21:54
diana_coman<mircea_popescu> people DO use cft, and bps, so the stocks are drawing down. i lost like 10% this week <- the sad thing is that I'm not even sure at this point if I won't run out of screens (hence lbn) before running out of cft/tool bps21:56
diana_comanit's more of a contest of what is going to be the first shortage21:56
* danielpbarron sits happily on his fairly decent stockpile of bits and threads21:56
diana_comandanielpbarron, you have no idea how many the bot eats when I let it loose like this21:57
diana_comanwhat is fairly decent, 1mn of each?21:57
danielpbarronidk how you get yours hands on so many tools21:57
danielpbarronenough to last for months i would guess21:57
danielpbarrontools are the more limiting factor21:57
diana_comanI bought out electron long time ago for one thing21:57
danielpbarronbarehanded uses them very slowly21:57
danielpbarronyou are still using those tools?21:57
mircea_popesculol as someone say, "interesting how widely divergent everyone's conclusions are"21:57
diana_comanwell yes, I am sure I would have enough lbn/cft for barehanded mining21:58
mircea_popescuatm i'm stickmining cr.21:58
mircea_popescujust ftr.21:58
diana_comandanielpbarron> you are still using those tools? <- yes, I bought a shitton of them at that time, lol21:58
diana_comanmircea_popescu, that's a VERY nice thing to do, I know21:58
danielpbarronwhat's so nice about it21:59
diana_comanthe xp! the output!21:59
mircea_popescu40 sticks in, about 2k cr. pretty shitty.21:59
danielpbarroni only use sticks myself when i just need something real quick and don't feel like waiting for someone else to trade it to me21:59
diana_comanoh, yuck21:59
diana_comanand how many ords mircea_popescu ?21:59
mircea_popescui mean yes it's 3.5 or so mn worth of cr in there21:59
danielpbarroni don't remember the last time i got an ord with a stick21:59
mircea_popescufor barely 1mn worth of cs.21:59
mircea_popescudiana_coman like 622:00
diana_comanI did some time ago quite a few runs of cs exploring and they were really good overall22:00
danielpbarronseems to me a way better use is to have noob get and ord virtually 1:122:00
diana_comanwell so then what is shitty in fact mircea_popescu - you can't know the total anyway until you build the ords22:00
mircea_popescui am building the ords.22:00
diana_coman6 out of 40 does sound ugly though22:00
mircea_popescui came here to build 25 ords.22:00
mircea_popescuand by god i will.22:01
danielpbarroni build my ords to but i have noobs gather them for me22:01
diana_comanwait, so is the 2k cr out of smalls/tinies only or including ords so far?22:01
mircea_popescui need high cr.22:01
mircea_popescudiana_coman incl ords.22:01
diana_comandanielpbarron, my data shows that noob ords are quite constant in value and below what I get ; on the other hand my ords vary more22:02
danielpbarroni could probably get so many cr in a few days barehanded22:02
diana_comanoh, if it's including ords then yeah, kind of ugly22:02
mircea_popescuyeah well if i spend a few days on this nothing will ever get done.22:02
danielpbarrondiana_coman, that may be, but if i use the stick myself it'll be all smalls, which is notably less yield than noob ords22:03
mircea_popescui wanna build these 37 screen bps already, and i need more us for mining r's22:03
diana_coman+ danielpbarron your cr is lower value so you'd probably get same number faster , true, but that's missing the point22:03
danielpbarronnot that much lower22:03
mircea_popescuwhat q do you get daniel ?22:03
danielpbarronwell yeah i guess quite a bit lower % wise22:03
danielpbarroni get basics over 15022:03
diana_comandanielpbarron> diana_coman, that may be, but if i use the stick myself it'll be all smalls, which is notably less yield than noob ords <- my view on this is that it depends on the length of the run you consider basically22:04
mircea_popescuthis is 228.22:04
diana_comanI never got ONLY smalls for sure22:04
mircea_popescuand it makes a fucking diff - i cook at 149 ffs22:04
diana_comanAND noobs miss on rares22:04
Birdman<mircea_popescu>atm i'm stickmining cr. << ever need a decent gatherer for some cs ording let me know22:04
diana_comanwhich makes it very costly actually22:04
mircea_popescuyeah Birdman but i need it high q.22:04
danielpbarronwhy so inclined to overcraft now that no blueprint loot though?22:04
Birdmanmhm thats what im sayin, my gathering is nothing to scoff at whilist still getting 100% ords22:04
diana_comanmircea_popescu, I think he means that he'd get one ord for each cs22:04
diana_comanyou can then build them22:05
Birdmanpushing 175, about q80 enums22:05
mircea_popescuyeah but they are lower ords.22:05
danielpbarronspeaking of which, Birdman come get some sticks so you can get me those ords22:05
mircea_popescui'd really like a big hit already. curious what cr remarkable is.22:05
diana_comanyeah, what I was saying earlier22:05
Birdmandanielpbarron im in town22:05
danielpbarronalight, once this adze is done22:06
Birdmanand yeah i get it mircea_popescu, but getting all ords might outweigh the slightly better output22:06
Birdmanfrom doing it yourself22:06
diana_comanI still get basics at 181, but it will probably go down if mircea_popescu gets his big hit, lol22:06
mircea_popescudiana_coman did it drop when i hit the grass ?22:06
mircea_popescuBirdman maybe. i udnno.22:06
danielpbarronidk why you guys are so against building someone else's claims22:06
diana_comandanielpbarron, I'm not against that, not at all22:06
Birdmanits still not been proven to me that mine are worth less22:07
danielpbarronsure sounds like it22:07
diana_comannope, I did it and sometimes do it22:07
diana_comanjust not *always* and certainly NOT as a generic "best" strategy22:07
diana_comanbecause it's not overall/objectively best22:07
diana_comanit has it's uses22:07
diana_comanthat's all22:07
danielpbarronyou know you can get remarkables with basic tools, even barehanded22:07
danielpbarroni don'tk now why you would waste sticks trying to get these22:07
diana_comanmircea_popescu> diana_coman did it drop when i hit the grass ? <- it dropped 1 q point on farming22:07
diana_comanwhich is a killer22:07
mircea_popescuoh22:07
mircea_popescunot so bad tho.22:08
diana_comanI don't really know on basics because at the same time I had increased a bit my sortage through tinkering22:08
danielpbarronyeah i lost a point on lumber too22:08
diana_comanmircea_popescu, BAD actually22:08
diana_coman1q point in farming is HUGE22:08
danielpbarronyou must be a bad farmer22:08
danielpbarroni have a pretty easy time getting lumberjack up22:08
diana_comanyeah, clearly22:08
diana_comanI also have an easy time getting mining up, getting lj up22:09
diana_comanit's only bloody farming that is a mess, lol22:09
mircea_popescudelete your characters more like DicePower22:09
danielpbarronit feels so far like maybe i'm not as good at mining, but i haven't built nearly enough to know22:09
diana_coman<mircea_popescu> delete your characters more like DicePower <- yes!!!!22:09
danielpbarronbut with lumber i get crazy good hit rates if i find a good spot22:09
mircea_popescuthe other problem is that i keep reading "small cunty rock" and doing double takes22:09
diana_comandanielpbarron, I suspect that's more depending on the spot, lol22:10
diana_comanbwahahaha the cunt is in the mind of the reader22:10
diana_comanor what was it22:10
mircea_popescuso it is.22:10
diana_comandanielpbarron, I get crazy good hit rates on wpl for that matter22:10
diana_comanso in this sense farming is good22:10
diana_comanvery good, lol22:10
danielpbarronso what's the big deal22:11
diana_comanbut that doesn't help if the q doesn't move even with 8 ranks up AND moreover 1 rank up in farming means 2*24 hours of building basically22:11
danielpbarronyeah i can get a q point in lumber from like.. a few ranks of lumberjack and building combined22:13
diana_comanthere, but the thing is that I keep track and I am comparing22:13
diana_comanand so far farming fares worst for some reason22:13
danielpbarronit depends on other players to you know?22:13
diana_comanin terms of how many q points per ranks etc22:13
diana_comanI know it does, I have nfi HOW it does22:13
danielpbarronit's virtually impossible to know exactly how your rank effected the quality22:13
danielpbarronyou are always fighting against other players ranking up22:13
danielpbarroni noticed this over last night as we both crafted shaped slags22:13
diana_comanbut in any case, wouldn't it make more sense that farming was then easier to rank up since I seem to be the only one going at it?22:13
diana_comanare you ranking up in farming?22:13
danielpbarronyou kept bumping my quality down to 10822:13
danielpbarroni don't have farming22:13
diana_comanso then?22:13
danielpbarroni'm saving those skill items for a sacrifice22:13
diana_comanthat's my point: I would understand to see it in mining or lj22:13
diana_comanas you are ranking up in them too22:13
diana_comanbut not in farming where I am alone22:13
danielpbarronhanbot probably has it22:13
danielpbarronnot a hard one to get22:14
diana_comanI don't think she was even online nearly as much though so I really doubt she ranked farming up more than you have ranked up lj for instance22:14
danielpbarronidk, there were plenty of times i saw her running back and forth from town (a sign she had a low rank new skill)22:14
diana_comanwell, if it's low rank, then no, she's nowhere that close, lol22:15
diana_comananyway, on the very bright side of lj, the skill is very easy to rank up not least because basically ALL It's ordinaries are easily built ffs22:18
diana_comancompare that with 4 out of 7 farming ordinaries that take either canines or st22:18
danielpbarronmining has some easy ones too22:18
diana_comanyes, it has22:19
danielpbarroneggs shells and skins22:19
diana_comanwell, the dcs is prolly easiest in mining really22:19
diana_comanwhich even feeds then nicely into the pn for lj22:19
diana_comanon the other hand, farming has the wpl which can be built but still with 7 tlc (and tlc ord takes st so no-no)22:20
diana_comanand lh which takes 7md which I might be fine at getting now with lj, but otherwise I was quite stuck on22:21
diana_comananyway22:21
danielpbarronfor me the best is whichever one uses mollusc :D22:21
danielpbarronsuper mega overcraft ftw22:21
danielpbarroni think it was eggs22:21
diana_comanyeah, well, I don't have that option22:21
danielpbarronor snakeskin22:21
diana_comanwhy not moss?22:22
danielpbarronalso nice22:22
diana_comanit takes 3 molluscs and it's easiest to get22:22
danielpbarroni have enough moss lol22:22
danielpbarronhm..22:22
danielpbarronah, harlots and clovers22:22
danielpbarronnot so easy22:22
diana_comananyway, as I said I don't have any huge q stuff nor ways to get it so that's not an option for me22:22
danielpbarronords rank me up so fast one time i accidentally wasted exp22:24
diana_comanbeing too ranked up one day, danielpbarron leaked xp!!22:25
diana_comanmakes for some eulora-news title :)))22:25
danielpbarronone day?? more like one.. 10 minute interval22:26
diana_comanbut yeah, I built my old tpt ords and I did waste some xp at some point for lack of paying enough attention to it22:26
danielpbarron"oh i can do a couple more before going to town.." *gets to town*  "!! WTF !!""22:26
danielpbarronbuilding of all things22:26
diana_comanah, sucks22:26
danielpbarrongoes up faster for me at this point22:26
diana_comanyeah, for me too22:27
diana_comanand cheaper, lol22:27
diana_comancurious how long it keeps going so nicely22:27
Birdmanwhats on the auction blockfor 21st?22:45
danielpbarrondoesn't it say?22:46
mircea_popescubirdman has a special power - asking this type of question. oh and making statements that miss all the datapoints. two! two super powers. these two and making auctions nobody wants to bid in. THREE!22:46
Birdmangive it time mircea_popescu, i may suprise you with a fourth22:47
mircea_popescuhehe22:47
danielpbarronhahahaha22:48
danielpbarronthe early drama over "rating wars" that got me unlorded for a time makes sense now ?22:49
mircea_popescui dun even recall this.22:49
* danielpbarron is the only lord to have been removed and re-added22:49
mircea_popescuha, that's pretty cool22:50
danielpbarroni was on the original list, although it no longer exists for some reason22:50
mircea_popescuiirc the original list was drawn on someone's back at conf 122:52
danielpbarronthere was a trilema article (too)22:52
mircea_popescuim pretty sure no trilema article ever published disappeared22:52
danielpbarroni think it was this one http://trilema.com/2014/bitcoin-assets-m/ and it got changed22:56
lobbesbot`Title: #bitcoin-assets +m on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. (at trilema.com)22:56
mircea_popescuah22:56
mircea_popescuso basically ~100 sticks is a solid day's work at mining.22:58
* diana_coman fully expects to wake up tomorrow to a drop in q on building22:59
mircea_popescui've n ot been managing much so far. coupla k cr whassat.23:00
diana_comanprecisely, lol23:00
mircea_popescuhm ?!23:00
diana_comannot yet, will follow23:01
diana_comanit's not as if you'll give up or something before it does, lol23:01
mircea_popescuhahaha that's a point eh.23:05
mircea_popescuaaabd the remarkable has been found.23:22
Birdmanwell done23:29
Birdmani can pretty much guarantee i wouldn't have found you one of those23:30
Birdmandanielpbarron got another craft table?23:35
mircea_popescuBirdman that's the thing - this run was badly underwater, maybe by 1mn or so. but once i found the remarkable - it's in profit, maybe by a whole million.23:36
*** Quits: diana_coman (~diana_com@unaffiliated/diana-coman/x-8319396) (*.net *.split)23:37
*** Quits: DicePower (Elite16065@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-yzgycwtamnvrkobn) (*.net *.split)23:37
Birdmanright, though im still pretty iffy on whether or not my ords < yours or w/e. That 'trail' we did was all over the place. we didnt even use the same gathering too ffs. BUT my gathering is pretty decent as it were so it was just a friendly offer.23:37
Birdmanwhats your gathing if you dont mind?23:37
mircea_popescu37323:38
Birdmandamn, whats your lowest skill?23:39
*** Joins: diana_coman (~diana_com@unaffiliated/diana-coman/x-8319396)23:43
*** Joins: DicePower (Elite16065@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-qeknfyxuswccxnyj)23:45
mircea_popescuuh23:55
mircea_popescuI HAVE NO LOWEST SKILL23:55
mircea_popescuall my skills are higher than the others.23:56
Birdmandid numbers get changed in the bouq line? i feel im getting more exp from shredding23:58

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