#Eulora log for Friday, 2016-05-06

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alikimnot to mention that no activity is profitable anymore00:09
danielpbarronalikim, when did it change for you?00:12
alikimhard to tell about 24-48 hours ago00:12
alikimI could pinpoint the time from logs ofc00:13
alikiminstead of getting 46 resources I started getting 4 and so on00:14
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danielpbarronah, so maybe this wednesday's update did it00:14
Birdmanhave you been ranking up your building?00:14
zakorus123im out of the doctors and am home00:14
danielpbarronwell rank up your building..00:15
alikimI know you get less amount for higher q and I have tables for all mats recording that00:15
danielpbarrondo what now?00:15
alikimand they were concistent for the last couple of weeks and then it's just went down the gutter00:15
zakorus123how u guys doin00:16
danielpbarronso far you don't get enough for me to want to buy, and your price data is based on one player making an offer00:16
Birdmani wanna know why my consid was q400+ maxed out numina over craft at q176, bod q233 DT q335 the bundle came out about q25000:17
Birdmanoh, and a token at q10900:17
danielpbarronblueprint quality has nothing to do with bundle quality00:18
Birdmanwanted to do a test run and see if token quality effects bundle quality more than you think it should00:18
Birdmanyeah i know00:18
danielpbarronapparently the reason for that is considerations have "built in" overcraft00:18
Birdmanhuh? that just means you can use 1-999 numina00:19
Birdman1 being its bv i guess00:19
danielpbarronapparently 1 numina would still be overcraft00:19
danielpbarronassuming everything is q 100 or w/e00:19
Birdmanso it should have 10*1.76*998 extra ecu in bundle bv and the DT being q335 you'd think it'd be in the 300's00:20
Birdmanis that just something known?00:20
danielpbarronthe bundle should be worth what went into it00:20
danielpbarronwas it?00:21
Birdmanprobably could've checked00:21
danielpbarroni did check on mine and it was00:21
Birdmanis bundle 10x consid bv?00:21
danielpbarronidk that's always the case00:21
Birdmanill pay more attention next time00:22
Birdmanbarely leveling up from a whole days barehanding now00:36
Birdmandays and no ords too00:37
mircea_popescujurov> now that bareback exploring was axed, it's time to teach grundinbot to craft << just cuz you get less experience dun mean much - fewer costs to level. it loots the same.00:53
mircea_popescudanielpbarron> i am ~more~ likely to loot extra units from a tiny since the update << small samples will do anything to you.00:54
mircea_popescuand in eulora, small means < 10k or some shit.00:54
mircea_popescudanielpbarron> i did check on mine and it was << always is, yeah.00:56
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danielpbarronwell i didn't realize we were talking since yesterday..02:16
danielpbarroni meant since the really big change a month ago or however long it's been02:16
danielpbarronseeems like it takes more for me to rank up too02:17
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mircea_popescuranking xp is not homogenous tho03:59
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zakorus123good morning06:27
diana_comanmorning zakorus12306:32
zakorus123morning diana06:32
zakorus123u got work for me still?06:32
diana_comanyes, sorted that out06:59
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diana_comanBirdman, I'm making tomes, so I'll have some a bit later today07:50
diana_comanavailable for sale: 3270 ibs 87q, price 1mn07:58
diana_comanmircea_popescu, jurov ^07:58
Birdmansweet keep me posted08:10
Birdmancongrats on all the pops hanbot08:11
Birdmanstart crafting things that need tons of bbb guys!08:37
diana_comanlol, I think mircea_popescu still buys bbb at 130%, doesn't he?08:40
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Birdman130% isnt what i'd sell em for09:50
Birdmanbefore the change sure09:51
Birdmanafter? if you want high tier rares you are gonna have to use tools09:51
Birdmanand even then the results aren't great, but i happen to be sitting on a stack over q100 and a stack <q10009:52
Birdmanso i figure when they're needed ill be that guy with all the beans09:52
diana_comancan't hurt to try I guess10:05
Birdmanyea suppose so, so has gathering confirmed gotten more difficult?10:06
Birdmanguess im high enough level to be happy about it10:07
Birdmanjust would be a shame if im lagging behind now if im not using tools, always figured if im barehanding 24/7 im getting the rank fastest10:08
Birdmanwhats funny bout that?10:10
jurovBirdman: acc. to my calculation you can now barely get one level/day. and my calculations are for levels between 150-20010:18
jurovbtw, given pervasive obfuscatious secrecy, i'm surprised server still sends exact experience numbers at all10:22
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Birdmanjurov thats pretty depressing, it was about a level a day for me where i am now, so what maybe days per level10:47
Birdmani still hit gud though seemingly a lack of ords, could be because i moved to a harder spot though10:47
Birdmandiana_coman how would i go about editing the bot to lock certain claims?10:56
zakorus123im gonna head over to jambajuice and get myself a smoothie10:59
zakorus123just realized jamba juice doesnt open for another hour lol11:06
Birdmanyeh i had to wait till now to go to the coffee shot11:24
Birdmanguess im the perfect person to click considerations, im noob enough to get alot of loot and skilled enough to get it decent quality11:33
Birdmanhaving the ultimate noob click it was a disaster, anyways11:34
diana_comanBirdman, search in the code for the comment that even says "don't lock tinies and smalls" or some such - should be in botactivity.cpp12:23
diana_comanI gave more precise details to danielpbarron so should be in the logs otherwise12:24
diana_comanBirdman, 8 dt are ready12:48
Birdmanill take em, and thanks i'll figure it out12:57
Birdmandiana_coman in town now? and how much for the lot12:57
diana_comanin town, should finish this craft in 5-6 minutes, price is same per each as earlier really so 8*(52000+1.8*2.21*29170)12:59
diana_comanah, no, this was bods12:59
diana_coman3.75mn total13:00
diana_comansorry, got to take them out, lol13:02
diana_comanready Birdman13:02
Birdmanno sweat13:03
Birdmanalright we got 999 nose hairs q163, DT q221, bod q223, token q109 10*1.63*999+88642*2.21+2.23*29170+100*1.09 = 276`942.82 bundle value13:08
Birdmanbundle q 179 1.79*15399913:09
Birdmanso there's that, next timme use a lower quality token and see if it shifts any13:10
Birdmanfeel im losing 1% ish due to the token13:10
danielpbarronloss is because of rounding13:17
danielpbarroneverything'd have to be the same quality to avoid it13:17
danielpbarronor else some other perfect mixture13:17
danielpbarronnot really worth the effort of figuring it out over 1k coppers13:18
Birdmanthere's definitely some weird calculation for these bundles anyways, is the bv at 999 numina or one you know, even so, 10ecu bv numina, even all at the difference in quality between q163 to q223 numina, and the extra 120 or so from a token at q223 is only just over 6000 ecu, so why is the bundle going from q221 as the most expensive ingreds to q179 which if eulorum bv for nmgc is 153999, 42 q points is worth 153999*.42 ~65k13:18
danielpbarrondidn't you just confirm that the ingredients and the bundle are worth the same (with an error of 1k) ?13:20
Birdmanbut using all ingreds q whatever the bundle q will come out equal in ecu, but less in quality13:21
Birdmani think13:21
Birdmanits early, but im pretty sure that makes sense13:21
Birdmanif you take all ingreds anyways, multiply by bundle quality, comes out less than bundle bv in ecu13:24
Birdmanthey inherently lose quality apparently13:24
danielpbarronthere is built in overcraft13:25
diana_comanif that's the case Birdman, it's not that they "lose quality" but that there is implicit overcraft13:25
Birdmanso it saps some quality to make certain there's loot13:25
Birdmanbut the ecu isnt changed13:25
diana_comanugh, how does that make sense ?13:26
Birdmanthats the question im asking13:26
diana_comanno, you are asking something that doesn't quite make sense, lol13:26
diana_comanwhat is "sapping some quality"?13:27
Birdmansee above13:27
diana_comanwell, I don't see it, lol13:27
Birdmanyou lose quality in making the bundle13:27
Birdmanall ingreds in ecu * bundle bv < bundle bv in ecu13:27
Birdmanbundle bv * quality that is13:27
diana_comaningred in ecu = input value13:28
diana_comannot sure what is bundle value to do there13:28
diana_comanbundle bv*bundle quality = output13:28
diana_comanoc = output - input13:28
diana_comanthat's all there is13:28
Birdmaningredient quality > bundle quality13:29
Birdmaningreds * bundle q < bundle bv * quality in ecu13:29
diana_comanmk, enjoy yourself13:29
danielpbarronno the bundle is input13:31
danielpbarronoutput is after the click13:31
danielpbarronclick being the thing that takes time13:31
Birdmanif you use all q200 ingredients say, you will get a bundle with less quality than 20013:31
Birdmanonly thing left to know is by how much and if it can vary13:31
Birdmanso, blueprints well into the q200 range should be marked up even more than normal, considering how high the ingreds need to be13:34
diana_comandanielpbarron, there are two steps, one can consider input/output at every stage, not a problem there per se13:35
diana_comanBirdman, how did you calc bundle value in fact?13:35
Birdmansays 153`999 for nmgc13:36
Birdmanbut also is irrelevant13:36
diana_comanmight be or not; bundle value would logically be number of bits shown in there*1113:36
danielpbarronwell the bundle had better equal the ingredients (minus some rounding) or there's a problem13:37
Birdmanits obvious to see 42 q points on the bundle is way more than 6200 ecu13:37
Birdmanwhich is the difference in ecu to get the ingreds i used entirely to 2.2113:37
Birdmani guess next one i'll take to the store13:38
danielpbarronyou can check the value yourself at storage13:38
diana_coman<danielpbarron> well the bundle had better equal the ingredients (minus some rounding) or there's a problem <- ah, right; the output is what I say , got mixed up with the oc thing13:38
Birdmanthats what i meant heh13:38
danielpbarronand the bundle value at q 100 had better not vary or else i have a bone to pick!13:38
Birdmanbut the ecu checks out from eulorums level, you dont lose money, just quality13:38
Birdmanand logically if it has inherent oc then its for that reason13:39
Birdmanwhat you think the bv might be changing?13:39
danielpbarronsince my consideration bundle that i combined long before i clicked did ~not~ change in quality when the consideration finally showed a different number of maculatures13:39
danielpbarronno, it doesn't change13:39
danielpbarroni tested this13:39
danielpbarronthe blueprint can (as strange as it sounds) change what is written on it13:40
Birdmanoh, so the eulorum number for the bv is from before some change to the consids?13:40
Birdmani've not seen any changes that you've mentioned13:40
Birdmanjust noticed apprentice is some 54 maculature, and the neophyte is 4513:40
danielpbarronthe considerations are apparently supposed to change how many maculatures it outputs based on how many bits exist in the world, but the bundle remains the same13:41
Birdmanis that confirmed by anyone?13:41
danielpbarronif you look at the number of maculatures every week or so you might eventually see one change13:41
danielpbarronit's not a daily thing13:41
danielpbarronunless someone were to destroy so many bits in a day i guess13:42
danielpbarronor create13:42
Birdmani could make ~50k of them13:42
Birdmanwould that be better for looting ?13:42
danielpbarronthat might do it, i don't know how active people were in doing it back when i was waiting13:42
Birdmanmp just auctioned a bunch iirc13:42
danielpbarroni think it used to be closer to 80 maculatures on the thing i had13:43
danielpbarronand around 50 when i clicked it13:43
Birdmanso i have loads of maculature i could be convinced to shred, if anyone is thinking to do a large consideration run ftr13:43
diana_coman<danielpbarron> the blueprint can (as strange as it sounds) change what is written on it <- ah, so basically it is the oc that changes13:47
Birdmanthinking more bits in existence the better for loot13:47
Birdmanmircea_popescu diana_coman any high q apron lints?14:00
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alikimjurov: acc. to my calculation you can now barely get one level/day. and my calculations are for levels between 150-200 << it took me 3 hours to get from level 4 building to level 5, I find way less tinies and no smalls anymore15:11
alikimgetting one level per day at 150 sounds very optimistic15:14
jurovalikim i mean gathering, not building15:37
juroveach skill is different15:38
Birdmanthinking i want lower quality consids if loot is only in bps15:57
mircea_popescudiana_coman i'll take the ibs16:01
mircea_popescuBirdman> just would be a shame if im lagging behind now if im not using tools, always figured if im barehanding 24/7 im getting the rank fastest << this in itself would be a pretty absurd state of affairs if true.16:02
Birdmanabsurd that i'd be ranking faster than others?16:03
Birdmanim already 3rd highest gathering as far as i know, and all i've done was barehanded, least since level 200 ish16:04
mircea_popescuwell yeah, if they spent the dough for tools and you get more for free, it'd be absurd.16:06
mircea_popesculike if you could walk to work faster than in a car. wtf is the point of a car then\16:06
mircea_popescubirdman all ingreds in ecu * bundle bv < bundle bv in ecu << what ? so take slag. "all ingredients in ecu" = 5 flotsam + 3 sr = 5*88 + 3 * 79 = 677. "bundle bv", well, it's 677. so 677 * 677 < 677 then. oookay ?16:09
Birdmanyeah i meant bundle q there, not bundle bv16:10
mircea_popescuBirdman> if you use all q200 ingredients say, you will get a bundle with less quality than 200 << you'll have to show this to me sometime ?16:10
Birdmanyou can combine my next bundle to see for yourself if you want16:11
mircea_popescuBirdman> says 153`999 for nmgc << well, nmgc is 1 bod + 1 dt + 1 to 999 hairs + 1 token. 29170 + 88462 + 10 + 100 = 11774216:11
Birdmanor no, not necessary, you answered your own question16:11
Birdmanwent by eulorum16:12
mircea_popescuwell yes. sum (qabv(all ingredients)) / bv(bundle) = bundle quality.16:12
Birdmani think eulorum is right, has anyone checked the storage value of these things?16:16
Birdmansee above what i put it, and the bundle quality it made, q221 bod + q223 DT + 999 q163 hairs + q109 token =  276`942.82 take that and divide it by the bundle quality it gave me which was 1.79 and it gives you about 15399916:18
Birdmanso assuming that is the base value, the total ingreds at q100 is less than the bundle bv q10016:18
Birdmanso i guess the bundle is higher than what goes into it16:19
mircea_popescuBirdman so it is wow, check that out.16:22
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Birdmancrazy right16:24
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Birdmanso the thing designed to over craft is harder to overcraft than normal16:27
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Birdmanwas that intended? thinking about it, that would be the better way to loot more in quantity than quality16:31
Birdmanand they are the only means of blueprints16:31
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mircea_popescu<Birdman> just noticed apprentice is some 54 maculature, and the neophyte is 45 << so then 45 * 1727 = 77715 meaning if you get 117742 ecu worth of materials, turn it into a bundle q 117742/153999 = 76 and then click it, you'll get OC for ~40k out of clicking a q76 bundle ?16:33
mircea_popescuseems it's easier than easier.16:33
mircea_popescuBirdman> mircea_popescu diana_coman any high q apron lints? << lemme look. hm, i got a bunch q 120-150 i could let go reasonably.16:33
Birdmanyeah i had that thought a moment ago16:34
Birdmanand cool i'd buy a stack16:34
Birdmanhighest quality possible16:34
Birdman<Birdman>was that intended? thinking about it, that would be the better way to loot more in quantity than quality? meaning the base value being higher than the ingreds16:35
mircea_popescuq 149, 20mn ?16:35
Birdmanthat come with a blowjob?16:36
mircea_popescuhey, 10000 items * 1000 each * 1.49 qual * 130% = 20 mn!16:36
Birdman10 each ***16:36
mircea_popescuoh fuck, i was looking at theladels lol.16:37
mircea_popescuBirdman same thing, 200k :)16:37
Birdmanawesome after this consideration ill buy16:38
mircea_popescukk ima get it out16:38
Birdmanthough it will be awhile16:38
mircea_popescuill be aorund16:39
zakorus123diana my job is done please come and collect16:39
alikimmircea: can I get that mats bulk I took a rain check for?17:25
mircea_popescualikim alright. what was it, link me the logline.17:30
alikimif I knew how to do it...17:30
mircea_popescucat logfile | grep "raincheck"17:33
mircea_popescuheh nothing here. weird.17:33
alikimI'm using web irc17:33
mircea_popescuhttp://logs.minigame.bz/2016-04-14.log.html#t13:13:15 << turns out you misspelled it lol. gotta misspell consistently!17:34
lobbesbotTitle: #Eulora log for Thursday, 2016-04-14 (at logs.minigame.bz)17:34
mircea_popescuanyway, yes.17:34
alikimcool, thanks, are you in game?17:34
alikimI can come to town17:36
mircea_popescuyes but what will it be ?17:36
Birdmanso low quality consideration gave lower quality stuff obviously, but alot less for the same bundle quality17:36
Birdmanmircea_popescu can i grab those lints now?17:37
mircea_popescusure Birdman17:37
Birdmanbut in short, low quality considerations suck17:40
mircea_popesculol alikim, l'embarras du choix ?17:40
mircea_popescuBirdman i thought they were better because more oc ?17:40
Birdmani thought they would be too but over all value seems alot less17:40
mircea_popescuyou know one click may just be not much basis.17:40
alikimmircea: anything, I just need it for sale later if I run out of money17:41
mircea_popescuyes but i can't give you "anything". pick something.17:41
alikimbetter bitterbean17:41
Birdmanfair enough17:41
mircea_popescuwhat quality ?17:42
mircea_popescualrighty. meet me in town in like 10 mins for your loot.17:42
mircea_popescu1000000÷197÷1 = 5076 beans you get.17:43
* danielpbarron throws up hands17:44
alikimI'm at heina17:44
mircea_popescugo ahead an' trade me alikim17:45
mircea_popescuah wtf17:45
mircea_popescubrb i left them in god's storage ;/17:45
Birdmanwhat are you high man why get beans17:46
alikimgod storage? the one where bitcoins grow from your footprints?17:46
alikimbirdman: because I don't know17:47
mircea_popescualikim well where all the s.mg auction items are born, and special rewards such as this. there'\s a place in the sky.17:47
mircea_popescuanyway trade me now17:47
Birdmanjust seems a waste of a blank check17:47
mircea_popescusomething tells me this is going to be a historically famous moment.17:48
alikimfor you maybe, I don't craft so I've no idea, for me it's just money17:48
danielpbarronyou could have.. asked17:49
Birdmanno no, for me its money too, which is exactly why its a waste17:49
mircea_popescuwhy should he ask lol. his game!17:49
Birdmanyou could have effectively sold it for who knows, 4mn?17:49
danielpbarronyeah there are items that sell for well over whatever the game values them17:49
danielpbarroni guess i'm just glad he didn't pick some thing only i can make like tokens17:49
alikimwell, you could ve told me before why did you wait till I got it and now you tell me when it's late17:49
Birdmanask someone of the item they are dreaming of having and you have a way to get it17:49
mircea_popescudanielpbarron imagine if he asked for 1mn in tokens.17:50
Birdmani wasnt keeping up with logs17:50
Birdman10k tokens lol17:50
alikimoh well, whatever17:50
danielpbarronwoulda totally crashed the token market :<17:50
Birdmani'll buy those beans off you for 1mn if you want17:50
mircea_popescueh ill pay 1.317:50
Birdmanwould take a long while to go through 10k of em17:51
mircea_popescudanielpbarron maybe i'd have weaseled out saying tokens are tokens. we'll never know.17:51
danielpbarrontokens are ingredients17:52
alikimif I run out of money while trying to level and gather then I'll use them, so far I'm good17:52
mircea_popescubut yeah what are tokens doing atm, 100`000% ?17:52
Birdmanmagic beans17:52
Birdmani got em pretty cheap trading for supplications17:52
danielpbarronlast sold was 150k for something worth around 100 to 200 prolly17:52
mircea_popescuthis has got to be some sort of record for a rce game.17:52
mircea_popescubtw should i sell more lbn ? tools ?17:55
Birdmani'd buy a bunch of cs17:56
Birdmanand any bouq or lapidary consids17:56
mircea_popescuah more consids huh. well, let me finish this wine so the token craft it not hung ; then gonna make some cs and lbn mebbe17:56
mircea_popescuthen some bods and consids.17:57
danielpbarroni have bods for sale17:57
Birdmanwhat line is making considerations ?17:57
mircea_popescuwhat q danielpbarron ?17:57
mircea_popescuBirdman bouquinism17:57
Birdmanah damn17:57
Birdmanwhat premium do you want on those bods17:57
mircea_popescuincidentally i'd be in the mkt for some poc/ma bps if anyone's looting/selling any17:58
Birdmanim not familiar with those abbreviations17:59
mircea_popescupointedly odorous charcoal / misshapen ampoule17:59
danielpbarroni also have poc and ma bps18:01
mircea_popescuwhat q/how much for 'em danielpbarron ?18:02
danielpbarron82 quality, 50k each18:02
mircea_popescunice new outloook for shop.18:02
mircea_popescudanielpbarron 50k for a POC bp ?!18:02
danielpbarronoh, no18:03
danielpbarronthose are 77 quality, 1.8k each18:03
mircea_popescumeh, they're 500something base value. 500% ?18:03
mircea_popescuand trhe md q 60 ? whay so low!18:04
danielpbarronthat's how much i paid for 'em18:05
mircea_popescuwhat qty's of these do you have ? prev shop listed qty too, was very helpful.18:05
danielpbarronno it didn't18:05
mircea_popescui recall at some point ? no ?18:06
danielpbarronthat was a while ago18:06
mircea_popescustuck in my head. anywya.18:06
mircea_popescuso how many of 'em do you have ?18:08
mircea_popescumkay i'll be afk. why's this so hard anyway! gotta pull tidbits of info with pliers already.18:12
danielpbarroni have a few thousand i think18:14
mircea_popescueee nice, mites!18:16
mircea_popescudanielpbarron can be specific plox i'd like to make a whole package offer!18:16
danielpbarroni have at least 3k of them18:24
alikimdoes crafting create extra base value, i.e. the results of crating bv > ingredients bv ?18:24
danielpbarronit can18:25
Birdmanalikim yeah thats the point of gathering18:26
Birdmanleveling, excuse me18:26
alikimlevelling in crafting?18:26
Birdmananything, yeah18:26
alikimwell, not in gathering, although it depends on how you look at it18:27
alikimextracting more higher q resources = creating extra bv ?18:28
Birdmanfor now you get enumerations that increase in quality while leveling lol, but diana_coman had proven before that claims have some sort of their own quality, as we compared claims between three people18:28
Birdmanidk what you mean18:29
Birdmangetting more is getting more18:29
danielpbarrontypically you get less until you get more18:30
alikimwell, certain claims give you more resources than others, could be random or some internal value18:30
alikimnot sure about quality, I don't have q variance18:30
Birdmanwell thats what we were trying to figure out, and the numbers showed a trend in tool found claims to yield more than barehanded, and higher gathering level found claims yielded more than lower level found claims18:31
alikimhigher gathering level found claims yielded more than lower level found claims << well that's attributed to you gathering level, not internal claim quality18:32
Birdmanmight not be quality itself, but its something18:33
Birdmansomething makes all claims not equal18:33
Birdmanand gathering level and tool effect that18:33
Birdman<mircea_popescu>eee nice, mites! << are you looking for mites? hypothetically, would you pay 400% premium on q600+ mites?18:36
danielpbarronalikim, no because same guy built them all18:39
alikimI'm already lost, what did you do exactly? One guy build a few claims or found a few claims? And then what?18:41
Birdman3 of us found claims in respective manners, one guy built them, tool found claims yielded more than none, higher gathering ranks yielded more than lower18:42
Birdmanusing same ingreds on each18:42
Birdmanthough different enumerations18:42
Birdmanwhich i dont think was a big deal back then but maybe it was and it totally skewed the numbers18:43
alikimwell, I don't gather statistics anymore because I'm levelling two skills at the same time but I my enum q goes up, I believe that affects amount and/or quality, so in your case claims could be the same really18:47
alikimmaybe tool found claims give you higher q ennums?18:47
danielpbarronenums defo matter18:47
Birdmanno alikim18:48
Birdmanand alot has changed since that test was done danielpbarron18:48
Birdmanblueprint quality used to not matter18:48
danielpbarronalikim, in the future you won't even get enums from gathering18:48
alikimwell, I can make this test myself as son as my enums go up enough, I still have the lowest q31 ones, so I'll tell you later18:49
Birdmanthey definitely matter now, thats known18:50
mircea_popescudanielpbarron ok so 6k poc + 3k md bps, q 77 and 60 respectively, 20mn total ?18:50
danielpbarroni don't have 6k..18:50
danielpbarronand md is supposed to be misshaped ampuole ?18:51
mircea_popescua right yea18:52
mircea_popescuok so then... 3k + 1.5k for 10mn ?18:52
mircea_popescuBirdman i dun think so.18:53
Birdmanhigher q then or is it just too much to entertain?18:54
mircea_popescuwell, more like got decent stocks on me atm18:56
Birdmanyeah but i wanna make some stupid quality stuff, so what q would that be?18:57
Birdmanstupid high q*18:58
mircea_popescui dunno, there's a diminishing return thing going. think about it : bv of the bundle is like 150k ; the value of 99 mites is like 100k. so if you make them 2x the qual of everything else, you only get the bundle up by 40%18:59
Birdmanthats all they can be used for?19:00
mircea_popescuand the beauty with bouq is that i get decent mites shredding the maculature i get from making cons.19:00
Birdmanyeah i assumed you already got it ~q300-40019:01
mircea_popescui must be in a sweetspot or something, but atm i'm actually getting > 100% what mites i use.19:01
mircea_popescuyour early package was a great starter ; but so far i seem ok.19:01
Birdmanwht % mark up have you been getting on those considerations?19:01
mircea_popescuall went in public auctions, add them all up.19:02
mircea_popescusomething like 3-400% iirc.19:02
Birdmanfair enough, i think the value of overcraft on bouq consids is > than others because you can loot more consids19:02
mircea_popescupossible. there are many variables involved though, it's not as easy as "lift this one lever as high as it goes"19:03
mircea_popescuwell bp q matters for sure.19:03
mircea_popescu danielpbarron> enums defo matter << word.19:03
Birdmanof course, but the objective is to loot as much as possible19:04
mircea_popescuwho clicks them prolly aslo matters.19:04
danielpbarrongonna have to turn down offer on the poc and ma ; although i understand it's not a bad offer, but then i'd essentially have paid a ~higher~ premium for the ones i already used that nobody is buying, and then you'd be able to make them too, ensuring nobody ever buys mine19:06
mircea_popescubut wait, didn't you buy the entire line ? or who got the bod bps19:07
danielpbarroni have those19:08
mircea_popescuso then YOU want to buy them from me anyway.19:08
danielpbarronnot to encourage alikim too much, but in that i'm limited on snails and heh heh, beans!19:08
mircea_popescuand tbh i was just making them to sell anyway, so i have no problem with you buying.19:08
danielpbarronprolly wouldn't want his 100 q anyway19:09
danielpbarronactually wait i guess it was polished stones i kinda ran out of, for the ampuoles19:09
mircea_popescuo look at that, it's mcguyver and lapidary. ouchies.19:10
danielpbarronand bod is gung-ho19:10
mircea_popescuyeah this is maybe not such a bright idea, not sure i wanna do k's of tw clicks.19:11
danielpbarroni sorta want to do lots of lapidary (i like the hat)19:12
mircea_popescuepic hat.19:13
alikimdaniel: well, the influx of low lvl resources has been cut tenfold, I don't know how much the economy depends on that, probably not much since there are only a few new players here. The beans ofc should I decide to sell will go at 130% or higher19:13
mircea_popescualikim how do you figure the tenfold ?19:15
alikimby my own returns19:15
mircea_popescudiana_coman what was i paying for this ?19:15
mircea_popescualikim you're a very tiny fish tho.19:15
diana_comanmircea_popescu, 3270 ibs 87q 1mn19:16
alikimwell, my returns were conssistent since I started playing then they suddenly dropped about 10 times, could be a seasonal thing ofc but I don't hink it affects me only19:16
mircea_popescupoint in case : i just bought 1mn of 1st level stuff, there's ~7k flotsam and 4k sr that went into these - clearly freshly shaven - shavings.19:17
diana_comanand in any case low lvl resources != barehanded19:18
diana_comannot sure why would one consider that low lvl resources come from barehanded only or something19:18
alikimdiana: unless you deposit money you can't really buy those axes at 25k ea and explore, what happens in you case in irrelevant, I don't think you can extract q1 resources19:19
mircea_popescuah... i guess people with very low skills barehanded mining almost never see the higher bv resources, so maybe the assumption is that finds are tiered like in wow, and as you level you move to a higher tier19:19
mircea_popescuthis however is not how eulora works. think of it more like a sort of "cone of vision", as in physics. the higher a particle's energy is, the flatter / wider its cone of interactions gets.19:20
danielpbarronalikim, so you work for someone else!19:20
mircea_popescualikim were you talking about low resources as in q1, or low resources as in bv < 100 ?19:20
diana_comanalikim, well, zakorus123 did NOT deposit money and he DID buy those axes at 25k each etc19:20
danielpbarronin any other game you wouldn't think twice about taking on NPC-offered "quests"19:21
danielpbarronbut when it's another player offering the quest i guess you think it feels too much like actual work or something19:21
alikimin my case I found all base ones and maybe 5 advanced resources but I'm taking about q < 519:21
diana_comanyeah, I suspect the problem is exactly that it's not npc-offered but people-offered19:21
mircea_popescualikim q 5 is not terribly useful in most applications, because the crafter might not want to throw his skill/high q bp into a low level bundle.19:22
mircea_popescudepends, some are different, esp if he has low q bps for that particular use.19:22
mircea_popescuoften what i do with low (<20 or so) resources is rectify them more towards say 70ish by mixing with higher q.19:22
mircea_popescunow logically : if i take your q 5 item and mix it with q 115 to make q 60, i will use 5k of yours and 5k of that for a stack.19:23
mircea_popescuEXCEPT : the stack is worth 24x what your 5k is worth. the other 23x come from the other 5k, the valuable one.19:23
alikimI'm not taking about how useful resources are, just stating the fact that now you can extract way less of them per unit of time than before19:23
mircea_popescuso logically your contribution to my final product is ~4%, and the other 5k did 96%19:23
mircea_popescumake sense ?19:23
mircea_popescuin this example, even if your thing drops 10x, the actual move i'll see would be from 100% to 96.4%19:24
alikimI guess free market economy will sort it out, the price for them will either change or not19:24
alikimif it won't then it doesn't matter19:25
mircea_popescuso far the demand for resources seems to consistently exceed offer though19:25
alikimbut I seriously pity any new non depositor19:25
mircea_popescu(though there's some dispute as to what that seems truly means in fact)19:25
mircea_popescualikim incidentally, were you using same q lbn throughout ?19:26
mircea_popescuthat's a more likely explanation for sudden output drop, i guess.19:26
alikimI used dif q bits to figure out how mats output / q depends on bit q, there is a funny dependency there and it drops but it's definitely not it19:28
danielpbarronwhat is 'mats' ?19:28
alikimclaim output19:29
mircea_popescuanyway. there's a difference between getting less experience for bh mining (which is factual) and getting less loot (which... isn't)19:29
alikimwell, I won't be able to shed any more light on vary low q mats anymore becuse I'm levelling, alhough it should work the same way across all values19:32
alikimal least till I get to the point where even buying higher than q11 bits is profitable19:33
jurovall i know a week ago i was bh looting *every time* and now i do *never*. no other difference. if that isn't factual then i don't know what is19:35
jurovyou don't need $maxint claims to clearly distinguish always/never19:36
mircea_popescuthe other thing is that you won't find any activity to be consistently profitable. perhaps the best illustration of this principle is any larger, profitable run. take out the most profitable click, suddenly you're barely above water. take out the most profitable 1% clicks, it's maybe 66%.19:38
mircea_popescui've seen this so often that to my eyes the rule of thirds became how i navigate the dubious waters of eulora loots.19:39
mircea_popescujurov might depend where you're doing it also ?19:39
jurovsame place, too19:39
alikim^^ and the same time19:39
mircea_popescuso how many tries each side ?19:40
jurovat least19:40
mircea_popescuand in 100 tries you got 100 tinies, and now in 100 tries you get 0 tinies ?19:40
jurovi am talking about loot!19:40
Birdmanhave you ranked up a decent amount lately? i've noticed abrubt changes from single levels19:41
Birdmanlvl 199 pure ords and misses from cs, lvl 200 got my first small with cs19:41
mircea_popescui'm confused. i thought that Is the loot ?19:42
Birdmanhe's saying from building aspect i think, he's not looting extra from the claim19:42
jurovlet me explain again. a week ago, i got 3*X resources of X tinies.19:43
jurovnow i 'm getting strictly X19:43
jurovNo other change, i did not even level up building19:43
jurovno wonder the discussion becomes utterly impossible if you redefined "loot" to include everything and anything + sticks themselves...19:44
mircea_popescuso this has nothing WHATSOEVER to do with barehanded GATHERING19:45
mircea_popescuas it's a discussion of... building claims.19:45
mircea_popescuok ?19:45
jurovyes, it's only about building19:45
mircea_popescuah ok. i dunno, nothing changed there at all.19:46
mircea_popescubut the fact that you personally didn't level may not mean much - game thinks in relative-to-whole-playerbase terms.19:46
Birdmanthere are noobs actively leveling now too19:47
Birdmanmight have pushed you down some curve or up19:47
jurovbut the quality did not change either!19:47
jurovwas 30 before, is 30 now (with inferior lbn)19:48
juroveh, whatever, stuff happens, water under bridge, etc.19:49
Birdmanyeah but now your guy might be less prone to loot things in that way or something19:49
mircea_popescujurov you wouldn't necessarily see it in quality as well as before.19:55
mircea_popescuused to be, back when this worldwide thing was exposed much more visibly in the quality. but now, many other factors can readily silence a change19:55
diana_comanfinally 500 building, go me20:39
alikimshow off ber ;)20:52
Birdmanwd diana_coman21:37
alikimmircea & diana: I found an extra book for building that I can give back to one of you, don't remember whom ;)21:56
alikimI'd also like to buy a book that gives Sortage skill21:56
diana_comandon't worry about it21:56
Birdman^ 2nd21:56
diana_comanI think mircea_popescu has the sortage skill bp hence book21:57
alikimhe's asleep I guess21:58
alikimhow do you connect to this irc via a desktop client? what's the server address?22:11
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danielpbarronalikim, you figured out how to add this channel to your auto-connect ?22:32
alikimnot yet, but I'm using mirc now22:32
alikimI'm trying different clients22:36
danielpbarroni think there's a way to use irssi on winbl0wz22:43
danielpbarronif that doesn't work, there's x-chat22:43
danielpbarronmirc is like the aol of irc clients22:43
danielpbarronor you could set up a very simple little machine running gentoo just for your irc, and connect to that with ssh using PuTTY22:44
alikimat least it's stable so far, I tried a couple of free ones and they crashed22:44
alikimthis one if I like it I can hack anytiime22:45
danielpbarronanyway the reason i bring up auto-connecting is that you should add #trilema to that list22:46
alikimwhat's in there?22:51
danielpbarronthat's the main channel, with the WoT that you had to join to play22:51
danielpbarronyou can get voice from the bot by typing /msg deedbot $up22:52
danielpbarron(because you are in the WoT)22:52
alikimwhat's voice?22:52
danielpbarronability to send messages to the channel22:52
alikimit said get your otp22:53
danielpbarronnon-wot entities have to get temporary voice in 30 minute intervals from those of us who are in the WoT22:53
alikimand some url22:53
danielpbarronyep that's a message encrypted to your gpg key, like how you got your original eulora username and password22:54
danielpbarrondecrypt it, and send the resulting string to deedbot with /msg deedbot $v THESTRINGYOUDECRYPTED22:54
alikimmmm... I don't remember my passphrase22:56
danielpbarronyou should better remember it!22:57
danielpbarronloss of gpg key is like loss of life22:57
alikimoh well, will leave it everything like this22:57
alikimI'm not into that stuff22:57
danielpbarronget into it.22:57
danielpbarronwhy do you think it was required for you to get an account in eulora?22:58
danielpbarronso you could just discard it afterwards??22:58
alikimnormally no game requires this encryption shit, so yea, it was just extra annoyance22:59
danielpbarrondo you suppose the WoT is going to break down and die because you want to keep ramming your head into it?23:00
alikimwhen I was doing it I had no idea about eulora or wot and shmot23:01
danielpbarrondoing what23:01
alikimall that ecryption gpg stuff23:01
danielpbarronlol you can at least idle in #trilema and read what goes on, although there's a public log on www for that23:02
alikimit's fine I'm tryong to kepp all these endless chats to the minimum, I hope I'll get answer here23:02
alikimyou remimned me I need to store my password somewhere ;)23:03
alikimbecause I can't decrypt messages anymore23:03
danielpbarroni'm curious how this plays out : you have eulora account but no personhood ie gpg key23:04
danielpbarroni guess for as long as the game only requiers username and password you get to keep using your account23:04
alikimthere is nothing I can do about it23:04
danielpbarroni can think of a thing23:05
danielpbarronmake a new key, new nickname, get new account23:05
alikimno way23:05
danielpbarronlike i said, loss of key is loss of life23:05
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mircea_popescualikim> mircea & diana: I found an extra book for building that I can give back << ehh, feel free to sell it.23:27
alikimmircea: can I buy a book that gives Sorting skill?23:28
mircea_popesculemme see here, a second.23:28
alikimor exchange it to building one?23:28
mircea_popescuhm i guess i gotta make some bbb23:29
mircea_popescualrighty ima make some sortage books once done with this shredding.23:30
alikimwhat's bbb?23:30
mircea_popescubetter beetle brew23:30
mircea_popescufortunately diana_coman sold me some ibs, so ima make flasks then brews then books.23:31
mircea_popescualikim> normally no game requires this encryption shit, so yea, it was just extra annoyance < of all rthe dumb shit you've said/done to date, this is easily the dumbest.23:32
alikimthat's subjective23:32
mircea_popescuif only.23:32
mircea_popescudanielpbarron this isn't even the lulziest bit. the lulziest bit is how the derps on silkroad were > 50% pgp-less.23:33
mircea_popescuthere's just something fundamentally broken in people's heads, what.23:33

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